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Old 12-29-2010, 08:56 AM   #57
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The only problem with liquid propane is that it comes from.. OIL! :-)
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:02 AM   #58
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I don't know where you been buying your propane but it's $2.69/gal here in the midwest and that's no road tax.
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:39 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by 94-Newmar View Post
The only problem with liquid propane is that it comes from.. OIL! :-)
Technically, not quite. Most propane comes from processing natural gas. The heavier ends (ethane, propane, butane, etc.) are stripped out in a natural gas processing plant, leaving high purity methane (CH4) to be transported through natural gas pipelines to local distribution systems and, ultimately, your home.

The heavier ends are either sold as LPG products or used as feedstocks in chemical plants (example - butane to butylene and propane to propylene).

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Old 12-29-2010, 09:23 PM   #60
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do a little research

I watched the Al Gore movie a few years back. Very convincing. So I did a little independent research. I used the Yahoo weather website. On it you could check the years when the record high temp was set for any particular location in the USA. So I clicked around and found that there is NO warming going on. If anything there are more record high temps sent in the 1930s than any other decade.

I have also been to Glacier Park and the ice there has receded. So what is the answer, likely somewhere in the middle. Global warming maybe not a complete scam, but it is likely to be exaggerated. IMHO.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:35 PM   #61
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... I have also been to Glacier Park and the ice there has receded. So what is the answer, likely somewhere in the middle. Global warming maybe not a complete scam, but it is likely to be exaggerated. IMHO.
Twenty thousand years ago a glacial ice sheet over one mile thick covered New York state.
Plants Need CO2 - Carbon Dioxide Emissions - Global Warming Climate Change Facts

The polar ice sheet retreated to its current level without human influence.
Plants Need CO2 - Carbon Dioxide Emissions - Global Warming Climate Change Facts

The sun and natural forces cause global warming and cooling.
Plants Need CO2 - Carbon Dioxide Emissions - Global Warming Climate Change Facts

The IPCC computer model scenarios have already missed their earlier predictions, including the current global cooling.
Plants Need CO2 - Carbon Dioxide Emissions - Global Warming Climate Change Facts
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Old 12-30-2010, 05:23 PM   #62
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... Sadly enough, the G. W. Bush government (being in the pockets of big oil) stopped all federal funding for further research on this version of energy, and my employer alone had to scale back its research effort from over 500 scientists and engineers working on this program to a mere 50. .
Gotta watch the devious slanted political/ecological mudslinging - there's plenty of "mud" from both liberal AND conservative camps to go around

Bush administration somehow "worse" than Clinton or Obama? Well, here's some more mud fer ya!

$5 Gas Predicted Under Obama -- What, No Pitchforks? - Larry Elder - Townhall Conservative
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Old 12-30-2010, 05:30 PM   #63
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Agree on the 'mud slinging' stuff... especially since we are ALL tied to 'big oil' ...
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Old 12-30-2010, 06:50 PM   #64
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It snowed and hailed at the same time this afternoon in Cave Creek, AZ. I'm looking for some climate change. Maybe Guatemala would be nice this time of year....
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:56 PM   #65
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The only problem with liquid propane is that it comes from.. OIL! :-)
Yes, you are correct, it is a byproduct during cracking ( very often burned off in refineries). Since the oil needs to be processed anyway to be used for the chemical industry, one might as well use this byproduct on a broader scale. The current price does not reflect the real cost, because it is coupled artificially to the gasoline prices. This is done different in Europe, and it could be done in this country, too!

And as another poster here states, it is also a byproduct of natural gas.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:01 PM   #66
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I watched the Al Gore movie a few years back. Very convincing. So I did a little independent research. I used the Yahoo weather website. On it you could check the years when the record high temp was set for any particular location in the USA. So I clicked around and found that there is NO warming going on. If anything there are more record high temps sent in the 1930s than any other decade.

I have also been to Glacier Park and the ice there has receded. So what is the answer, likely somewhere in the middle. Global warming maybe not a complete scam, but it is likely to be exaggerated. IMHO.
As far as I understand the global warming thing, it is not the absolute heat at a given time and place, but the shorter winters around the globe. The absolute temperature at a given time is a weather effect, the shift to shorter winters is a climate change.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:05 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Gary - K7GLD View Post
Gotta watch the devious slanted political/ecological mudslinging - there's plenty of "mud" from both liberal AND conservative camps to go around

Bush administration somehow "worse" than Clinton or Obama? Well, here's some more mud fer ya!

$5 Gas Predicted Under Obama -- What, No Pitchforks? - Larry Elder - Townhall Conservative
It was not my intention to do any mudslinging, but I just stated a fact that I was involved in personally.

They moneys stopped flowing during the Bush years, and it started to flow again since Obama has the say.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:15 PM   #68
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Presidents control the flow of money and the US Budget? Hmm..
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:49 PM   #69
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As late as 2007, Al Gore and company were saying that snow was a thing of the past and the GRU in England the repository of most global warming knowledge also said that cold winters in the UK would soon be a thing of the past. Only when the winters started to get colder did this “climate change” and the notion that global warming caused winters to be severe. This is a political answer to what natural cycles have done. When people quote NASA, they seem to think that this is the same NASA who put the astronauts on the moon. Well, this is the Boston wing of NASA run by James Hansen who is a certified nut who just makes it up as he goes along. He has been caught adjusting (he calls it homogenizing) previous data as well as current data. The historical temperatures (especially the 1930’s) temperatures have been dropping (impossible) and current data is increased.
Over 90% of the world’s temperature stations have been closed since 1990. There are about 1500 in the US which is less than half of the previous number. The ones remaining are the ones that are urban and easy to get to for daily reporting. These urban stations have the urban heaat island affect. Over 75% of them are defective. See Home

to see an interesting site on these weather stations.
This is where all these politicians get their “homogenized” data proving what is obviously incorrect. It is all about control. As to the argument that we might as well do it is a totally false argument because the cost are so high as to ruin our economy (what is left). Europe has been abandoning the concept as quick as they can and have dropped cap and trade.
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:09 PM   #70
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Presidents control the flow of money and the US Budget? Hmm..
Just like they "save or create" jobs.
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