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Old 03-04-2013, 09:47 PM   #57
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Wealth redistribution is nothing new. It's been around for thousands of years. The rich have been taking from the poor since the days of Nebuchadnezzar. That's why the rich have all the money and the poor have none. This idea that the rich earned the money they have is simply not true. Certainly some have. But most have inherited it. Old money, the ruling class, the landed gentry, and today the 1%.

Sometimes it became too much and the Parisians stormed the Bastille or the October Revolution. Whether it was Marie Antionette and let them eat cake, Robin Hood and Sheriff of Nottingham, Jesse James, or Leona Helmsley's "only little people pay taxes" the only difference is the players.

This idea that the poor are taking and the rich are giving is just some media pundits idiocy. The poor have always paid - debtors prisons, the poorhouse, indentured servitude or the modern credit card. The rich can avoid taxes and other legal avenues not available to the average Joe.

If you earn 500 Million and you tax rate is from zero (3 thousand millionaires last year paid no fed taxes) to 14% or you made 50K last year and you pay 28% who was the winner?

This has nothing to do with politics but is just the state of the human condition.
James,

You are so uninformed. First, if you made 50K there is no way you paid 28% in taxes. Look it up. Don't just make this stuff up as you go along.

Second, where is your source about 3,000 millionaires who paid no taxes. And by millionaires, what do you mean? Be specific. Is that someone who had a million dollar income or is that someone who had $60,000 in income but who had a net worth of a million dollars. And, do you know the difference?

The complainers will always be without. Those who are jealous of the achievers will always be dependent on them. It is the doers who make the world go round for all of us.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:23 PM   #58
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Uninformed?

Uniformed - I think not. OK, so you had to make 69K to pay 25%.

This is the typical ugliness of discussion inthe US today. It always deteriorates into name calling and insults when you don't agree. We have lost faith in Democracy, those who voted for the other guy must be stupid.

I read about a study where even though it was against their own best interests, many people opposed taxes on the wealthiest because they secretly harbored a dream that one day they might be rich so they opposed any attempt to make the rich pay more. Even though they knew they were paying more, as a percentage, than the wealthy.

As to who paid no fed taxes its under discussion, some claim as many as 7000

4,000 of the richest in Romney's '47%' - Sep. 18, 2012

Here locally it was revealed in the Frank McCourt divorce that he paid no Fed taxes on his 108 million dollar income.

You have missed the point. The rich have, and always will, all the money. The poor, the rabble, they have been around for just as long. Thats why the rich have their money and the means to keep it. And the poor will never share in it. Right or wrong.

The wealthy are liberals and conservatives, we hate George Soros but we love the Koch Bros.

The US is the home to the most self made millionaires in the world. And you can make the most with luck, drive and work in this country. There is nothing wrong with being successful or reaping the rewards of hard work.

But the majority of the rich did not earn their money, they inherited it. They form the huge wealth behind the peddlers of influence in this country. The people that really make the decisions, people that most have never heard of. The John Paulsons, the Phillip Anschutzes of the country that make a phone call to their senator when things need to go their way. Even the President has to bend to their will.

Every year new billionaires rise and old ones fall. Such is the nature of investment.

That three of the top 10 wealthiest Americans are the Walton heirs says something.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:35 PM   #59
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Do you think wealthy people hide their money under a mattress or bury it in their backyard? I would much rather the rich man build his 3rd or 4th mansion, buy a new yacht or another new car because every thing he purchases is built by someone else who gets paid for their work. So much of the money that is filtered (taxes) thru the government is wasted. Raising taxes on the wealthy may make you feel better but it won't raise your standard living one iota.

How many people depend on Oprah for a living? If she pays a lot more in taxes, someone is going to lose a job.
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:04 AM   #60
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Ok , just so i understand this, a parent dies leaves his children an inheritance from either a family business,that they have worked in, or just from his own labors which he has payed taxes on but they don't deserve it. But someone who hasn't contributed a thing in making that money does, and not only that has been letting others provide their living does deserve it?

So, when you kick the bucket your will will read:
Sorry kids selling mh and buying 10 cheap trailers with it and giving to fine upstanding welfare high class. Because they've done so much to deserve to have equal wealth. Comical.
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:11 AM   #61
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Agree with cat320. Now that's what's fair. If you want it bend your back and earn it.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:51 AM   #62
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Interesting reading to say the least. I think we need to look at a level of reality with the tax structure. The mantra "Tax the Rich" has been bandied about for quite a while now. The problem starts with trying to define who the rich really are. If I make $400,000 a year I would be considered rich in Jackson, Mississippi, or Broken Bow, Oklahoma, but in New York City or Los Angeles or Chicago I would be middle class at best. So even trying to define rich is hard to do.

However, the video didn't even get into income, but only wealth and who has it. Again the definition of wealth is different in different regions. In DC a modest home is $600,000 and up while here in Buffalo it's $200,000 at the most and in many areas it would be even less.

So who really is wealthy and how would one do a redistribution? We could start by taking all of our RV's and giving them to the homeless. Now that doesn't seem like a good idea, does it? Redistribution always seems to make sense as long as the one from whom it is taken is someone else. The implication of some on this thread is that inherited money shoujld be taken from the "wealthy" and redistributed to those less fortunate. I can tell you that if we had the same $1 million estate exemption that would have been in effect we would see many small businesses be forced to be sold to big business which would further concentrate wealth into the hands of the few.

Whether we like it or not, there will always be the poor and the rich. For every Tom Brady there will be a thousand Ryan Leaf's. The statistic for lottery winners is that 78% file bankruptcy within five years. Most of us will never be lucky or skillful enough to become rich, but I would be willing to bet that just about everyone on this forum is pretty darn comfortable. After all, isn't that what life is about?
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:53 AM   #63
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Most folks dont plan to fail. They fail to plan.

Most folks worry and complain about things they can do nothing about. I simply continue on, and sleep very well.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:09 AM   #64
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"A new analysis from the Tax Policy Center finds the richest American families are paying the highest federal tax levels in decades. In 2013, families with incomes in the top 20% of the country are paying an average of 27.2% of their income in federal taxes. The top 1% of American households, with average incomes of $1.4 million, will pay an average of 35.5% in federal taxes, the Tax Policy Center reports."
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:08 AM   #65
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Best part about the US is that anyone can better their situation.

Sad part is too many just decide to complain about their situation.
True True

When my father died in 1956, he left my mother with debt of about $50,000. He never made more than $5000 in his life but Mom paid all the bills on her own.

As to wealth distribution, it is as it is. People earn and are rewarded. Those who don't work, put themselves in their own predicament. In spite of my family's financial condition, I put myself through college with the help of my wife. I EARNED what I have. Key word being EARNED Earned, get it, Capice, versted, comprende (spelling not guaranteed).
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:58 AM   #66
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True True

When my father died in 1956, he left my mother with debt of about $50,000. He never made more than $5000 in his life but Mom paid all the bills on her own.

As to wealth distribution, it is as it is. People earn and are rewarded. Those who don't work, put themselves in their own predicament. In spite of my family's financial condition, I put myself through college with the help of my wife. I EARNED what I have. Key word being EARNED Earned, get it, Capice, versted, comprende (spelling not guaranteed.
Damn straight. Well said!
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:19 AM   #67
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Interesting reading to say the least. I think we need to look at a level of reality with the tax structure. The mantra "Tax the Rich" has been bandied about for quite a while now. The problem starts with trying to define who the rich really are. If I make $400,000 a year I would be considered rich in Jackson, Mississippi, or Broken Bow, Oklahoma, but in New York City or Los Angeles or Chicago I would be middle class at best. So even trying to define rich is hard to do.
There are two bedroom, full basement homes going for a 'good buy' right now in Vancouver and Victoria BC for just a bit less than a million dollars. Now I find it strange that it was a real estate salesman on the news who was quoted as claiming the 'good buy' bit.
Quote:

However, the video didn't even get into income, but only wealth and who has it. Again the definition of wealth is different in different regions. In DC a modest home is $600,000 and up while here in Buffalo it's $200,000 at the most and in many areas it would be even less.
Denise and I looked at a home at the corner of highway 5 and Buffalo in Silver Creek a few miles outside of Buffalo that was on the market for $45,000.00 all rebuilt and re-insulated and with new dual pane sealed windows etc. I wanted to buy but Denise was afraid of not having health care.
Quote:

So who really is wealthy and how would one do a redistribution? We could start by taking all of our RV's and giving them to the homeless. Now that doesn't seem like a good idea, does it? Redistribution always seems to make sense as long as the one from whom it is taken is someone else. The implication of some on this thread is that inherited money should be taken from the "wealthy" and redistributed to those less fortunate. I can tell you that if we had the same $1 million estate exemption that would have been in effect we would see many small businesses be forced to be sold to big business which would further concentrate wealth into the hands of the few.

Whether we like it or not, there will always be the poor and the rich. For every Tom Brady there will be a thousand Ryan Leaf's. The statistic for lottery winners is that 78% file bankruptcy within five years. Most of us will never be lucky or skillful enough to become rich, but I would be willing to bet that just about everyone on this forum is pretty darn comfortable. After all, isn't that what life is about?
I watch the Warren Buffets and Bill Gates of life with interest and without jealousy. They are mega rich but they do not affect me nor I them. At one time I owned (before Denise) some rental properties here in BC but the government gave the renters more rights than the rental owners so I got out of that money losing business very quickly. It basically got to be that once they were in if they were losers, you were stuck with them because eviction became a battle of lawyers, both of whom were operating out of your pocket.

Denise and I sold a two bedroom condo in Victoria for more money than we paid for a 3 bedroom (+ office) home large lot, big workshop, gardens and newly installed greenhouse for less money. I still regret the fact that she didn't want to move to Silver Creek and that she refused to believe we could have bought a lot of health care for the $300 thousand dollar purchase difference but what the heck when you love someone you love 'em.

Now pending the results of the next lottomax .........
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:33 AM   #68
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Dennis, too bad you didn't buy in Silver Creek. You sound like you would be a fun guy to have as a client and as a fellow Western NYer.

The problem with a video like the one you posted is the use of broad generalities. Terms like "rich, wealthy, and poor" are difficult to define. I always remember an interview between Johnny Carson and Kirk Douglas where Douglas was telling Carson about growing up in NY City where Douglas' father was a rag picker. Carson said, "Oh you were poor."

Douglas replied, "Oh no. We weren't poor, we just didn't have any money."

Ed
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:44 AM   #69
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True True

When my father died in 1956, he left my mother with debt of about $50,000. He never made more than $5000 in his life but Mom paid all the bills on her own.

As to wealth distribution, it is as it is. People earn and are rewarded. Those who don't work, put themselves in their own predicament. In spite of my family's financial condition, I put myself through college with the help of my wife. I EARNED what I have. Key word being EARNED Earned, get it, Capice, versted, comprende (spelling not guaranteed).

I think one should take pride and joy in one''s success, but where I take exception is the implication that then those who don't have it failed to EARN it. Luck (especially the absence of bad luck) often plays a huge, if not always obvious, role.

The number one cause of personal bankruptcy in America is medical bills (not laziness, not stupidity). Tell me how one "earns" the absence of a terrible illness or injury in one's life.

So take pride in your success, but do not judge others with less success, for all you know, some of them may have "earned" more success than you but life can be unfair. The wise person, upon seeing a beggar, says "there but for the grace of God go I".
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:13 PM   #70
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We make our own "luck".
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