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Old 03-05-2013, 09:05 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by wardy View Post
Sheesh, so if you don't agree just overtake the thread with many posts and then change the country (make that continent) to Africa... really.
The country is different, the point is the same.
I know plenty of North Americans who worked their butts off and never got past poor. I have some in my own family. Mortgages growing instead of diminishing....
I think you missed the point:
Just because someone works hard doesn't mean they will become wealthy.
Ever read Malcolm Gladwell's "The Outliers"? Insight within that book on why some people (Americans) become successful and others not.
Ever watch undercover boss? Stories from America right there.
Sheeeeesh!
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:16 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Mrjim View Post
Those that are physically able to work should work, OR GO HUNGRY.
Having had a family member incarcerated, they work for 12 cents/hr, slave labor, oh with no heat in the winter, and no healthcare to speak of.
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South Etobicoke jail like no other | Toronto & GTA | News | Toronto Sun
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:17 PM   #101
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Sheesh, so if you don't agree just overtake the thread with many posts and then change the country (make that continent) to Africa... really.
Any comment on the man from India quitting his job and feeding the poor?
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:20 PM   #102
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Read through this entire thread and it won't take long to understand why we are in this perilous predicament. Read through it and you'll will see the divide that exists within our opinions and within our nation. Damn the poor, tax the rich, give me what others have, it's not my fault it's someone else's, don't touch my stuff, and, well, I think you get the point.

What seems to be missing is that middle ground, you know the one that used to exist in Washington. There are no simple answers to poverty, taxation, wealth redistribution or any of those questions. Wealth redistribution is exactly what the burglar does in the middle of the night or the drug dealer on the street corner or the crooked politician taking a bribe. Yet, we can't let those who can't take care of themselves perish. Maybe the solution is to raise taxes to some extent, but also separate those who can't work from those who WON'T work. There is a middle ground out there, but somehow it seems to escape us when there is a we and they in any discussion. Maybe it's time we started thinking about us instead of blaming "them" and trying to work together as a nation. It can work again, if we are willing to give it a try.
Well said! Too bad there are those that feel it's a simple BLACK and white issue....the comments on here are becoming a little; NO a lot like racism...and that's a shame, because since the collapse; ANYONE could be on welfare and the fact is there still are no jobs to be had and many good formerly hardworking people have lost everything.
But you big bad guys that worked so hard for everything are so self righteous it's almost laughable.
We ALL worked for what we have on this forum; otherwise we wouldn't have the toys we do, nor would we be able to live the lifestyles we do...to sit on here and speak as if those who are less fortunate are some kind of lower life form is just plain wrong!
Forget not from whence ye came!
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:17 PM   #103
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:26 PM   #104
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Have you ever offered any of the "broke and out of work" or "hungry" people at the stop sign a job or food? I have and 9 out of 10 time they only want your money. I tied to pay for a tank of gas in NM a couple of years ago and the man told me he really wanted the money. I don't know if he even owned a car.

How do any of you pretend to know of the charity work some of us do? Now I am accused of racism?
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:17 AM   #105
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Have you ever offered any of the "broke and out of work" or "hungry" people at the stop sign a job or food? I have and 9 out of 10 time they only want your money. I tied to pay for a tank of gas in NM a couple of years ago and the man told me he really wanted the money. I don't know if he even owned a car.

How do any of you pretend to know of the charity work some of us do? Now I am accused of racism?
I at one time lost everything I had re-accumulated after moving to BC and started a Hot Tub delivery and installation service. At times I would need bulk labour for guiding a tub into location laying on its side and running vertical onto the property for installation and in these cases I would need four helpers to keep the unit upright and stop it from falling over.

I would go to a job finding place and look for four people to get $15.00 an hour for a minimum of 4 hours. Now considering I was paying from pick up to drop off they would be getting paid about 3 hours to do nothing but sit in a truck. Explained up front and in front of the management.

You could not believe how fast the place emptied out because they really didn't want work they just wanted their welfare 'looked for work' claims to be filled in and signed. I have been broke at least three times and did whatever i could to become self reliant and employable.

Too many duff sit and pick up welfare and bemoan their inability to get work. I belong to a social group who funds food so our local highschool kids have meals to eat and can stay in school. These kids are super appreciative and we have seen our efforts rewarded when we see the graduation numbers soar. These kids will benefit from the hard work of strangers and they will be a lot better for it.

We have actually cried when some of these kids attend meetings at the end of their school life to thank us for enabling their graduation. I bitch but I also assist when and where I can.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:22 AM   #106
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You know the old *proverb*, Give a Man a fish and he will eat for the day, Teach him how to fish and he will eat for a lifetime? I think some people just don't like fishing.

*adage , Chinese saying, etc.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:25 AM   #107
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I heard the Canadian version, "Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll spend the rest of his life sitting in a rowboat drinking beer."

Close enough I guess.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:30 AM   #108
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And if you want it, but you cannot bend your back (or use your brain) to earn it, then just remain poor, go hungry and die?
Works for me. If that truly were to happen you would find a real quick change in attitude, but no reason as long as do gooders are willing to foot their bills.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:38 AM   #109
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I know quite a few who are 100% disabled and I have no problem with a system that supports them. In San Francisco they will give you cash just for showing up and collecting. While in NYC last year we noticed a large number of Men all wearing matching T-Shirts. They were picking up trash, sweeping, etc. Our guide told us they were all on some kind of "welfare" and had to work to get their money. I was very impressed as NYC was very clean.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:09 AM   #110
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I at one time lost everything I had re-accumulated after moving to BC and started a Hot Tub delivery and installation service. At times I would need bulk labour for guiding a tub into location laying on its side and running vertical onto the property for installation and in these cases I would need four helpers to keep the unit upright and stop it from falling over.

I would go to a job finding place and look for four people to get $15.00 an hour for a minimum of 4 hours. Now considering I was paying from pick up to drop off they would be getting paid about 3 hours to do nothing but sit in a truck. Explained up front and in front of the management.

You could not believe how fast the place emptied out because they really didn't want work they just wanted their welfare 'looked for work' claims to be filled in and signed. I have been broke at least three times and did whatever i could to become self reliant and employable.

Too many duff sit and pick up welfare and bemoan their inability to get work. I belong to a social group who funds food so our local highschool kids have meals to eat and can stay in school. These kids are super appreciative and we have seen our efforts rewarded when we see the graduation numbers soar. These kids will benefit from the hard work of strangers and they will be a lot better for it.

We have actually cried when some of these kids attend meetings at the end of their school life to thank us for enabling their graduation. I bitch but I also assist when and where I can.
Great story.

Where are you HappyCCRVr? Care to comment?

This echos my experience at trying to help a homeless beggar near our office building. He was always there near the end of the day, asking for 40 cents. He appeared to be in good physical shape. One day I happened to have a small package that needed to be delivered about 2 blocks away. I was going to take it but decided to ask this person if they would like to earn $5 and take it for me. It was a small gift for someone who had done me a favor and who would have appreciated it being delivered by someone who needed the money.

He declined and said this was his busy time and he would miss out making some money if he did that. What?

So. What are you to do? Apparently there are enough people who hand out freebies for this person to be satisfied and keep him from getting an honest job. Is that the way to really help a person or are you just pacifying your own misplaced sense of guilt? Isn't this how our welfare system works also? People become "satisfied" being poor on welfare and food coupon receipts and this keeps them from having to make the effort to get some kind of job, any kind of job, to better their situation.

It is not the "haves" that cause this downward spiral. It is the ones who encourage people to be satisfied being poor that cause it.

Don
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:15 AM   #111
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Read through this entire thread and it won't take long to understand why we are in this perilous predicament. Read through it and you'll will see the divide that exists within our opinions and within our nation. Damn the poor, tax the rich, give me what others have, it's not my fault it's someone else's, don't touch my stuff, and, well, I think you get the point.

What seems to be missing is that middle ground, you know the one that used to exist in Washington. There are no simple answers to poverty, taxation, wealth redistribution or any of those questions. Wealth redistribution is exactly what the burglar does in the middle of the night or the drug dealer on the street corner or the crooked politician taking a bribe. Yet, we can't let those who can't take care of themselves perish. Maybe the solution is to raise taxes to some extent, but also separate those who can't work from those who WON'T work. There is a middle ground out there, but somehow it seems to escape us when there is a we and they in any discussion. Maybe it's time we started thinking about us instead of blaming "them" and trying to work together as a nation. It can work again, if we are willing to give it a try.
Here Here. Well said.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:42 AM   #112
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I'm curious about some things. In the year 2011 I made $30,055 in income. Does this make me one of the rich people or poor people? I paid in $2,661 in federal tax and $1,099 in state tax. What percentage of my income is that? Does that make me one of the overtaxed people or the undertaxed people? Should I be happy or mad? I need you guys on the Internet to tell me because if I see it on the Internet it must be true.
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