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View Poll Results: Are you legal or not with your concealed weapon?
Yes, have CCW. 63 52.07%
No CCW, still carry and no plans to get a CCW. 19 15.70%
No CCW, but plan to get CCW. 10 8.26%
Do not plan to carry a gun. 29 23.97%
Voters: 121. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-15-2011, 06:51 PM   #99
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If they are inside my home, but I, or my family is not ( I come home & a burgled is in my home, by himself) I call the cops. At this point my life isn't in danger. ID also like to say that my view with firearms for protection is not to kill, but to stop the threat, if it means kill to stop, well...
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Old 08-15-2011, 07:24 PM   #100
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I've seen some interesting comments. AZ allows concealed carry without a permit as long as you are allowed to own a handgun. Not sure about the whole State of Utah but Salt Lake County allows open carry. Not many do it and one City PD really has a problem with it.

Prior to the new CC law in AZ you could actually carry a hand gun in your waistband as long as enough of it showed so it could be recognized as such.
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Old 08-15-2011, 07:50 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Paul R. Haller View Post
I served in the military and I do not carry nor do I expect to be thanked. I've seen enough blood spilled to last 3 lifetimes in what we were told was to preserve our freedom by lying politicians. Our right to bear arms is written in the bill of rights by men who were worried about a war with England and who, by the English, were branded as traitors. Those same heros died almost 150 years ago and many of the concerns they carried have since passed into history. The English are now our allies and we no longer have marauding indians and grizzly bears attacking you and your family in your hand built homestead on the edge of the western frontier nor are you considered a traitor.

Times have changed and even those who still believe the way it was, should be the way it is, have not. Not until they also have passed to history can we accept change and embrace it.
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Sir;
Thank you for your service.

The Founding Fathers were not concerned about preserving the right to own and bear arms in order to massacre bears, Indians OR Englishmen, but instead to preserve our ability to protect ourselves from the tyrannies of our very own American government.

The Second Amendment was not then and is not now about hunting rights or wars against external enemies.

Our Constitution and its protections are as necessary today as ever was. Human beings have not evolved beyond tyranny and corruption quite yet, so times have not changed as much as you think.
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:14 PM   #102
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I'm curious. Do you actually see people open carrying there? I spent a long time in Olympia and I don't ever remember seeing anyone but LEOs with open carry. Same with Spokane. Just because it is possible, does not mean that it is practiced.

Maybe WA is like PA. You see it only in the suburbs. The urban police sometimes take a dim view of it, legal or not.
Yep, last weekend in Chehalis, wife and I were eating at a little restaurant and guy came in on a motorcycle. He had a 1911 on his belt. No one said a thing. My wife was surprised to learn that it was legal without a permit.
One person did it at a Winco here, conflicting stories as to how he was acting, but he got convicted of carrying "in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons" or some such nonsense. Somebody was "alarmed" that he was carrying so they called the cops. So it "alarmed" someone, some peoples driving alarms me, but I can't call the cops and file a charge about it!
We've been married just under 25 years, I've had my CPL for about 26 and carry everyday. She hates guns, but in a dicey area will used to ask if I was armed, now she doesn't ask. I'm armed even doing yard work or in my bathrobe at night.
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:19 PM   #103
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I believe the 2nd amendment say I can have a gun in my home. Since my RV is my home, I guess the Constitution is my permit! My RV is insured by Smith & Wesson
That is only true when stopped to camp and hooked up to utilities, otherwise it's a motor vehicle (if a motorhome). A towable might be different as you're not occupying it while traveling
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Old 08-15-2011, 09:03 PM   #104
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In MO your car, or whatever your in is considered your domain .
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:12 PM   #105
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That is only true when stopped to camp and hooked up to utilities, otherwise it's a motor vehicle (if a motorhome). A towable might be different as you're not occupying it while traveling
There are some really interesting conditions regarding MHs. For example, RVs are specifically called out in the Texas Penal Code as being exempted from the open container (alcohol) rule that applies to all other vehicles. The TPC is silent on seat belts behind the driver's seat but it seems to be generally accepted that a MH is treated the same as a tour bus regarding seat belts.

At the end of the day, I suspect that the law enforcement officer at the scene has a lot of latitude in how to proceed regarding an MH be it alcohol, seat belts or fire arms. That said, there have been a lot of questions here and other forums about RVs involved in traffic stops. I've never seen a report of a traffic stop other than as potential drug runners, normal driving infractions (speeding, stop signs, etc.) and accidents. Of all that things that I would worry about while traveling would be a stop by police as long as I was obeying the normal traffic laws.
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Old 08-15-2011, 11:28 PM   #106
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There are some really interesting conditions regarding MHs. For example, RVs are specifically called out in the Texas Penal Code as being exempted from the open container (alcohol) rule that applies to all other vehicles. The TPC is silent on seat belts behind the driver's seat but it seems to be generally accepted that a MH is treated the same as a tour bus regarding seat belts.

At the end of the day, I suspect that the law enforcement officer at the scene has a lot of latitude in how to proceed regarding an MH be it alcohol, seat belts or fire arms. That said, there have been a lot of questions here and other forums about RVs involved in traffic stops. I've never seen a report of a traffic stop other than as potential drug runners, normal driving infractions (speeding, stop signs, etc.) and accidents. Of all that things that I would worry about while traveling would be a stop by police as long as I was obeying the normal traffic laws.
I live in California and have spoke to a couple of police and sheriff officers locally and all of their responses have been consistent. The front two seats are governed under the vehicle code. In the living area of the motor home you have the same freedoms that you do in you home. The only exception to this is that you can not have a loaded firearm within physical reach of either of the occupants in the front seats. And, as I was told most recently by a veteran sheriff officer, "while traveling on the highway you can legally walk around freely in the living area with a margarita in one hand and a gun in the other. I don't recommend it, but under the law there is nothing that I can do to stop you." I agree with that officer, I wouldn't do that...... well maybe the margarita I would.
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Old 08-16-2011, 09:18 AM   #107
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I suspect that no all of the officers in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia share those opinions. There is a strong anti-gun bias in the State and I suspect that some of the anti-gun thinking is included in those with a badge. It may be local dependent

Recently in Ohio, there was an video of an officer threatening to murder a concealed handgun holder. It was, in fact, the second such incident with that same officer. His partner at the time did nothing to stop that actions, which clearly violated several areas of the Bill of Rights. A subsequent interview with a City Councilman from Columbus confirmed that he was a raving anti-gun so the officers actions were condoned by the City. The concealed handgun owner in the subject video did nothing wrong and tried several times to comply with the Ohio law to notify the officer about his firearm but all of those were rebuffed. Even if he had not, the officers repeated threats to kill the citizen while he was in handcuffs have no place in our society. The video went viral from YouTube.

As for the margarita, our windows in the back all of a dark tint. Even at night, it is difficult to see much clearly while we are stationary, let alone rolling along the highway. On one trip, DW, DD and DIL were seated around the dinette table, playing cards and having adult beverages. I didn't worry about it. I suspect that law enforcement has a lot of other, bigger issues to worry about.
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Old 08-16-2011, 09:18 AM   #108
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Sir;
Thank you for your service.

The Founding Fathers were not concerned about preserving the right to own and bear arms in order to massacre bears, Indians OR Englishmen, but instead to preserve our ability to protect ourselves from the tyrannies of our very own American government.

The Second Amendment was not then and is not now about hunting rights or wars against external enemies.

Our Constitution and its protections are as necessary today as ever was. Human beings have not evolved beyond tyranny and corruption quite yet, so times have not changed as much as you think.
From one Senior to another, Well said. I too, would like to thank Mr. Haller for his service. It's because of his service and many others that we have the right to choose to carry or not to carry in the majority of this Country's States. In fact, because so many have served we can freely discuss this issue and agree to disagree without fear of persecution.
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Old 08-16-2011, 09:36 AM   #109
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I think you will find that, even in California, the vast majority of police officers don't have a problem with gun ownership by decent, law abiding citizens.

"I suspect that no all of the officers in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia share those opinions. There is a strong anti-gun bias in the State and I suspect that some of the anti-gun thinking is included in those with a badge. It may be local dependent"

I don't know what this statement is based on, but I rather doubt it is on personal experience. The vast majority of people with guns that cops become involved with are anything but decent, law abiding citizens.

The vast majority of cops really don't care if you have a gun stashed in your motorhome. They do care when some idiot has a gun and plans to use it against an innocent or against a cop. Cops do worry about that and with good reason. Just last week an officer in San Diego was shot in the back of the head by a "motorist" who was flagging him down. (google Jeremy Henwood, USMC Major with a couple of tours in Afghanistan and 4 years as a police officer.)

Once again....if you are going to be armed..understand the laws and be responsible for your actions.
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Old 08-16-2011, 09:42 AM   #110
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As a follow on...I did not see this Ohio video...but there are a couple of options open there. If the man's rights were violated then he has recourse through the courts with a civil suit against the officer and the department. There are many groups out there that would be happy to file suit pro bono if in fact that is the case. I would urge one to look deeper behind a video because it does not always tell the whole story (again, not having seen it I can't speak directly to it.) Do cops err? Do they lose their temper and patience? Yup. Should they, probably not, but as long as human beings are employed it will happen.
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:27 AM   #111
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I think you will find that, even in California, the vast majority of police officers don't have a problem with gun ownership by decent, law abiding citizens.

"I suspect that no all of the officers in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia share those opinions. There is a strong anti-gun bias in the State and I suspect that some of the anti-gun thinking is included in those with a badge. It may be local dependent"

I don't know what this statement is based on, but I rather doubt it is on personal experience. The vast majority of people with guns that cops become involved with are anything but decent, law abiding citizens.

The vast majority of cops really don't care if you have a gun stashed in your motorhome. They do care when some idiot has a gun and plans to use it against an innocent or against a cop. Cops do worry about that and with good reason. Just last week an officer in San Diego was shot in the back of the head by a "motorist" who was flagging him down. (google Jeremy Henwood, USMC Major with a couple of tours in Afghanistan and 4 years as a police officer.)

Once again....if you are going to be armed..understand the laws and be responsible for your actions.
My opinion is based on the consistent denial of 2nd amendment rights in California. Concealed carry permits are mostly under the control of local police departments and granting those to individual citizens is rare, according to what I've read. I have no way of gauging the opinions of individual officers but the department leadership in police organizations appears to mirror the the attitude in Ohio rather than the approach in Texas.

Texas passed the concealed handgun bill in 1995. At that time, the opposition to citizen concealed carry among the law enforcement establishment was very high. Because the law made Texas a "Shall Issue" State, local departments no longer had any say. There was a lot of "blood will run in the streets" commentary. Today, many of those same departments have recanted.

This year, the Texas Legislature attempted to pass a bill (actually a series of bills) that would have allowed concealed handgun carry on college campuses. Actually, it would have allowed those who already have concealed handgun licenses (minimum age 21 except for ex-military) to carry their guns inside college buildings. The hue and cry from campus police forces against the bill mirrored that of the public police forces back in 1995.

The overall attitude in Texas towards guns is no where near as a negative as it is in California. I do admit that California as some places where open carry (unloaded) is permitted and that even Texas has no equivalent. I've also aware of many video taped incidents with police with those in California who have tried open carry. Those may not represent the general feeling of all LEOs in California but they hint that it might be less than positive. Similarly, the link that I posted earlier about a Philadelphia open carry incident suggests that LEOs in Philadelphia have less than a positive attitude toward open carry, even though it is legal in PA.

When I see written support from California based police organizations for citizen carry, I'll believe it. Until then, I believe that the CA police organizations who deny citizens concealed handgun licenses, regardless of the person or their circumstances are representative of the overall attitude of police toward citizen gun possession. In this, there is little difference among NJ, NY, IL and CA. I'll keep an open mind to any empirical evidence presented to the contrary.

I'm a strong supporter of LE and count current and former officers among my friends. Theirs is a difficult and often dangerous job and I appreciate the dedication with which the vast majority of officers do their work. My understanding about 2nd amendment violations in CA is not based on a negative opinion of LE there from an overall standpoint. While I have never lived in CA, I have been a frequent visitor to the State as a part of my business career.

As I said in my post, I don't think any officer in CA spends time worrying about an RVer having a gun. That doesn't mean that they are supportive of that potential and would not deal with it negatively if it were discovered. I understand no legal way for a non-resident to have a firearm in CA except under the Federal transport provision. That gets a little murky if you are traveling with a planned stop in CA.
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Old 08-16-2011, 01:08 PM   #112
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I live in California, volunteer for the Sheriff and in fact today is range day for any volunteer and the deputies. Better to learn how to shoot right and safely. Rural California is not anti gun and the number of CCW's is huge. Volunteers may not and do not carry when in service.

I have carried a pistol in a lockbox under the bed of the MH but I found something better, for me anyway. At the COP West show in Pamona I bought a 1.5 million volt taser. The first time I set it off in the house the cat disappeared for 4 hours. Let me say this that in close quarters that 1,5 million volts really gets your attention.
And no we can't carry a taser while on duty either.

I don't ever want to take a life but I have no problem scaring the crap out of someone, and if you have that they don't know what else you might have. I have been known to carry a black powder 44 caliber New Army with much of the same effect except it has a 0.451 round ball of pure lead and tons of smoke and two big bangs.
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