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Old 12-22-2013, 10:36 AM   #15
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I edited my post but I think it is worth posting again as some may not go back to the edited portion.

Sign or write see ID
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Old 12-22-2013, 10:44 AM   #16
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We were victims of a burglary during the Christmas Season of 2010. short story all stolen cards had 'see I.D.' On the back. All of the cards, except one were used for thousand of dollars by the crooks. The one not used was my wife's Costco American Express Card, which had her photo on it!
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Old 12-22-2013, 10:48 AM   #17
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As Canadians we have PIN & Chip secured CC that we have used for years in both Canada & Mexico where this security system has been adopted....never had a card compromised. In the US where this technology is not used .....my wife had her card compromised last year at ....Target...and I had my card compromised at...Bashers.

However, in both cases the security breach was not at the check-out........ (signature would have made no difference .....nor did the PIN or Chip....nor was it scanned, so tin foil shielding would not have helped) .......but at the head office "systems " level where you would think major companies would have much better security? Short of giving up the use of my credit card ........I think the ball is in the Bank's/Retailer's court to find the appropriate security solution....last time I looked they seemed to be making a pretty healthy profit .....even after coving all of this theft!
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:01 AM   #18
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I have "Ask for ID" on my cards and rarely have I ever been asked to present my ID. Never had an issue using the card with that on the back.
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:06 AM   #19
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When I briefed on Identity Theft, the number one cause of stolen CC numbers wire disgruntled employees, or greedy employees, who sold "lots" of cc numbers to thieves who were willing to use them. They could get anywhere from $1 a cc number to $100 for 10 cc numbers.

Scenario:
Thief checks into motel room and get credit card type door key.
Thief uses magnetic strip writer to write good CC# on door key magnetic strip.
Thief goes shopping using swipe machines.
Thief returns and tells desk clerk his door key card does not work.
Desk clerk re-writes door code on door card.
Thief goes to room and takes a nap before next shopping trip.

Anyone can purchase a card writer.

They last number on a CC account is a "check-sum" number verifying that the card is a good card. Years ago, circa 1999 time frame, there was a web site called "discard" and it was used to allow mathematicians to check their algorithms. One could select from 150+ banks and generate any CC set of good numbers. They could use the same scenario above to use those numbers at merchant stores. Up until my last check in to see if that site was still active, it had been for 14 years or more.

During a LEO seminar it was used as a demo and a CC# was geerated. The officiating entity check their data base (we were in San Antonio) and found that the CC actually was a good number and belonged to a gentleman in Ohio. So that number could have been used to purchase items without any suspicions.

Another method of obtaining CC's, however gross, is dip-sty-dumpster diving. Shred every thing, please.

If you noticed over the years, merchants tried to protect themselves. At first they asked to see signature. Then they stopped doing that and asked to physically see the card. They stopped doing that. Then they asked to see the card and as an in-store verification process had to type in the last 4 numbers on the card. Then they stopped doing that when the customer responded with the last four numbers. Now, many have stopped doing that.

Is it complacency? I think they just don't want to take the time to check.
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:16 AM   #20
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The Target hackers did not see the CCs, just the data.

Nobody has asked for my ID in years.

Not signing the card does not matter, is not relevant to this issue.

Not tipping a server that makes less than minimum wage does not solve the problem.

If you have a chipped card it can get hacked while in your wallet. Must be shielded.
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:30 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baraff View Post
One thing I have heard about is some people are not signing the backs of their cards, instead, signing "Ask for ID". This sounds like a great idea, but I was wondering if any here have done this and experienced problems in using the cards.
For the past few years I have been signing the back of the card, and, I also put 'check ID'. Most places ask for ID, but, not all.

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Originally Posted by mel stuplich View Post
Also, as suggested by the card co., we don't tip any server who does not ask for ID.
(We note that on the slip so they know why they didn't get a tip).

Mel
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I like that idea.

If they have a good attitude, I (myself) still would give them a portion of a tip and a note of explanation.
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:31 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by mel stuplich View Post
RickO


Also, as suggested by the card co., we don't tip any server who does not ask for ID.
(We note that on the slip so they know why they didn't get a tip).

Mel
'96 Safari
I have to say IMHO this is really not right. The "See ID" on the back of a card is against the acceptance rules of MC, Visa and Amex and has been proven that it does nothing to protect you yet someone spends between 15 minutes and an hour making sure you have a good experience and ensuring you enjoy your meal and you stiff them for something they overlook in the last 30 seconds of your visit that isn't even valid to do?

Visa's Official Statement on the matter:
Quote:
Some customers write "See ID" or "Ask for ID" in the signature panel, thinking that this is a deterrent against fraud or forgery; that is, if their signature is not on the card, a fraudster will not be able to forge it. In reality, criminals don't take the time to practice signatures: they use cards as quickly as possible after a theft and prior to the accounts being blocked. They are actually counting on you not to look at the back of the card and compare signatures, they may even have access to counterfeit identification with a signature in their own handwriting. "See ID" or "Ask for ID" is not a valid substitute for a signature.
Also some people don't know (I suppose) that is a violation of the Visa and Mastercard policy to ask for ID:
Quote:
American Express says it doesn't ban merchants from requiring customer ID, though it discourages the practice. But it does ban merchants from treating Amex holders differently than any other cardholder. Discover told us that merchants are free to request ID if they want to.

If you're a Visa cardholder and a merchant presses you for an ID, Visa says you should notify your card issuer. In the case of Amex, notify American Express directly. MasterCard customers should report the violation by visiting the company's merchant violation web page.
Can a merchant require ID for a credit or debit card purchase?
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:35 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by CampDaven View Post
The Target hackers did not see the CCs, just the data.

Nobody has asked for my ID in years.

Not signing the card does not matter, is not relevant to this issue.
>>>Exactly, in almost every case the data is stolen after use and fake credit cards are made.

Not tipping a server that makes less than minimum wage does not solve the problem.
>>> +1, just rude and cheap.

If you have a chipped card it can get hacked while in your wallet. Must be shielded. +1 FACT!
Yet again I agree with everything CampDaven has said! Can I like your post and put +1 after each statement
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Old 12-22-2013, 11:38 AM   #24
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We were visiting the west coast on Black Friday week end and made a charge at a Target store. The following day, my credit card company called me and asked if I had made a charge at some online auction company that morning. My card number had been compromised and they took care of that charge quickly. That was probably the result of a data ripoff at Target, as I infrequently use that card, but that is not for certain. Foil wrapped cards, ID checks and my personally scanning that card would probably not have helped. I check my billings on line often and rely on the bank to make adjustments for theft. They are good at getting the illegal purchases adjusted.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:04 PM   #25
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There is only ONE entity to blame here, and that is those that did the hacking.
I am sorry, but I disagree. No merchant should store the credit card data unless the individual approves. If it is stored it must be encrypted. The fact that this data existed at all puts Target at fault. Inside job? Very likely. Visa and MC will be collecting a very hefty fine from Target. In addition I am sure states will bring action on Target for the breach.

There is nothing a consumer can do to protect themselves from this type of breach. The ones that will suffer the most are those that use a debit card and have cash removed from their bank accounts. The banks will eventually return it but this is a slow process.

I personally only use my debit card at the bank ATM, and no where else, as it is far too dangerous. For those that do not want a credit card I would recommend a separate account for the debit card and fund that account with the minimum necessary to limit your exposure.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:12 PM   #26
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I am sorry, but I disagree. No merchant should store the credit card data unless the individual approves. If it is stored it must be encrypted. The fact that this data existed at all puts Target at fault. Inside job? Very likely. Visa and MC will be collecting a very hefty fine from Target. In addition I am sure states will bring action on Target for the breach.

There is nothing a consumer can do to protect themselves from this type of breach. The ones that will suffer the most are those that use a debit card and have cash removed from their bank accounts. The banks will eventually return it but this is a slow process.

You really hit the nail on the head here, there is nothing that seeing an ID is going to help with 99% of the credit card problems that are happening. Data theft is the real problem and any company that stores and/or doesn't encrypt is the one that is causing the main problem. Keyboard loggers and malware also can be an issue from personal computers but that is a small part of the large fraud going on.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:15 PM   #27
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The ones that will suffer the most are those that use a debit card and have cash removed from their bank accounts. The banks will eventually return it but this is a slow process.
True for some. Not for me.
My FCU handles CC and debit accounts the same. I have never lost a dime because they catch it when it happens. They know my buying habits and freeze the account abd call me when there is an anomaly.

However, a CC is vulnerable up to the credit limit, and the debit card only to the amount in checking.

BTW, I have not used an ATM nor gone into a bank in over 15 years. I get cash during purchase transactions.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:20 PM   #28
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While the CC bank may be vulnerable up to the credit limit, you are not. Your maximum liability is $50.
With a debit card the law states: If someone makes unauthorized transactions with your debit card number, but your card is not lost, you are not liable for those transactions if you report them within 60 days of your statement being sent to you.

Lost or Stolen Credit, ATM, and Debit Cards | Consumer Information
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