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Old 06-01-2007, 07:48 AM   #29
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Thanks Rusty, that is it. There exists the possibility of a whole new, different, civil war in the future.
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Old 06-01-2007, 07:53 AM   #30
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What puzzles me is that I encounter more "citizens" who share the views discussed in this topic than not. It is probably due to the rural area in which I live versus living in a large metro area. We do have a large dairy industry here and 99% of the hired help is hispanic and illegally in our Country. I have asked the farmers why and they say they either can't find "citizens" who want to work or if they do they cannot rely on them to show up everyday due to alcohol or drug problems. The same goes for the logging and building industries. When I need to hire I get people who run away when I tell them we participate in the random drug screening program.

Our Country is going to H*** in a hand basket and nobody we elect to represent us seems to want to do anything about it. Hand shakes and lip service is all we get.

I haven't thrown in the towel yet. I sure pressure my politicians from my County Commissioners to our President to wake up and use common sense to protect our safety and sovereignty.

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Old 06-01-2007, 09:40 AM   #31
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We heard yesterday that Bank of America is being fined for hiring "undocumented immigrants".

When we owned a business, we were required by law to make a copy of each employee's social security card and photo ID.

Shame on Bank of America for setting such a lousy example for small business owners!
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Old 06-01-2007, 10:20 AM   #32
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JudyandJim:
We heard yesterday that Bank of America is being fined for hiring "undocumented immigrants". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Seen on another forum.....

"Calling an illegal alien an undocumented immigrant is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist."

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Old 06-01-2007, 04:38 PM   #33
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You are right on, Rusty.

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Old 06-01-2007, 06:35 PM   #34
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Judy and Jim asked what would we do if there were no more illegals to do all of these low paying, unskilled jobs.

The answer is that there are people in this country, legally, that would do these jobs. When I was a teenager I worked as a busboy and dishwasher. It didn't damage my "inner child" at all. In fact it made me want to get a job in some other industry and I did. Military, aerospace, fire dept. paramedic for 28 years and now I teach in a community college.

Not bad for an ex busboy/dishwasher.

We need to eliminate the sources of the jobs, employers who are willing to gamble that they won't be caught, and hire people who are legally here and/or native born citizens. If these people were to be hired the pay would increase with the level of experience and ability.

None of these jobs would be much higher than minimum wage positions but as the people in those positions became more educated or motivated they would move on to bigger and better positions.

Remember, minimum wage jobs are not meant to sustain a family of four through a multi-hundred thousand dollar mortgage and college. They are meant to be stepping stones to better, higher paying positions.

Will there be people who are unable to progress beyond menial labor? Of course, but then they were never going to become CEO's of Fortune 500 companies anyway. They have reached their apogee and that is where they will stay.

Unfortunate, yes, but people are only given equal opportunities and there is no guarantee of equal outcomes.

Anyone out there want a doctor or airline pilot who was pushed through the system only because of their ethnicity or sex and not because of their qualifications for the position?

By the way, the organization that wants to take over the southwestern U.S. is La MEChA. Look them up on Google and read their words. If you think they are kidding the Mayor of Los Angeles and the Lieutenant Governor of California, among others, are or were members of this group. Take a look at what a toilet L.A. in particular, and California in general, have become.

For those of you who don't know, illegal aliens in California are eligible for instate tuitions at our colleges and universities. However, some kid from Oregon who wants to go to UCLA has to pay out of state tuition, near or over double the in state price.

Just some more fuel for discussion.
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Old 06-02-2007, 05:07 AM   #35
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Skipsor, I couldn't agree with you more. Your points are dead on target.

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Old 06-03-2007, 11:01 AM   #36
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shoot them now, or, shoot them latter, but eventually you will have to shoot. And while were at it, shoot some of the folks that caused this problem by supporting the cheap labor markets. No more selling out America for buck.
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Old 06-03-2007, 01:46 PM   #37
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McCain admits in Iowa we won't deport illegals because they'll riot!

Just when the dust was beginning to settle following President Bush's latest assault on common sense, in which he accused conservatives of "spreading fear" by being honest about amnesty, Senator John McCain decided that fear mongering was not such a bad tactic after all.

Globe Gazette:
http://www.globegazette.com/articles...c419090759.txt
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Old 06-03-2007, 03:19 PM   #38
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Let's be realistic this is all about big business. They will not be happy until they break all the unions and people are forced to work for what ever the illegal immigrant will work for. I've worked construction my entire life and have never seen one of those jobs Americans won't do, at a living wage. People have been pumping the portajohns without illegals doing it, hard to think of something less desirable to do for a living. Pay people fairly and we won't need any illegals period. JMO
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Old 06-03-2007, 03:49 PM   #39
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"Let's be realistic this is all about big business. They will not be happy until they break all the unions and people are forced to work for what ever the illegal immigrant will work for. I've worked construction my entire life and have never seen one of those jobs Americans won't do, at a living wage. People have been pumping the portajohns without illegals doing it, hard to think of something less desirable to do for a living. Pay people fairly and we won't need any illegals period. "

You are not going to like this but...

You are correct. But I believe unions are a big part of the cause. When laborers in this country demand wages 2-3 times the worth, yes worth, the company has no choice but to off shore.

I have been union and they did nothing for me. Look at this, a bricklayer who can lay 100 units/hour is paid the same as the bricklayer that can only lay 50 units/hour. Is that fair? I think not.

I worked for an electronics manufacturer years ago. I was on a line, aligning AM radios. I was doing 12-15/ hour with ZERO errors. We were supposed to receive a bonus for productivity over 10/hour.

On the 3rd or 4th day, the union steward came by and made it clear that I was doing too well and making his 'boys' (all 40+ yo's) look bad.

He emphasised his point by mentioning that I really couldn't align any radios with 2 broken arms.
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Old 06-03-2007, 04:09 PM   #40
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Exactly what is a living wage? Please define.
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Old 06-04-2007, 06:09 AM   #41
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hamguy:
"Let's be realistic this is all about big business. They will not be happy until they break all the unions and people are forced to work for what ever the illegal immigrant will work for. I've worked construction my entire life and have never seen one of those jobs Americans won't do, at a living wage. People have been pumping the portajohns without illegals doing it, hard to think of something less desirable to do for a living. Pay people fairly and we won't need any illegals period. "

You are not going to like this but...

You are correct. But I believe unions are a big part of the cause. When laborers in this country demand wages 2-3 times the worth, yes worth, the company has no choice but to off shore.

I have been union and they did nothing for me. Look at this, a bricklayer who can lay 100 units/hour is paid the same as the bricklayer that can only lay 50 units/hour. Is that fair? I think not.

I worked for an electronics manufacturer years ago. I was on a line, aligning AM radios. I was doing 12-15/ hour with ZERO errors. We were supposed to receive a bonus for productivity over 10/hour.

On the 3rd or 4th day, the union steward came by and made it clear that I was doing too well and making his 'boys' (all 40+ yo's) look bad.

He emphasised his point by mentioning that I really couldn't align any radios with 2 broken arms. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
So what happens when you are 50+ years old and can only lay 90 bricks an hour, cut your pay? Make no mistake that day will come in your life, if you do physical labor. Look unions are not the answer to all the worlds' problems, but if you think big business wants a level playing field you're crazy. They want to hold all the cards and pay people as little as possible, yet not have them rioting in the streets. Who speaks for the working people, the politicians? Both parties are controlled by BB. Also I define living wages as the ability to raise a family, afford to pay the bills and get the kids an education. Look I worked 60-70 hours a week to send my 2 youngest to prep school 20k per year was it worth it, you bet. I was willing to do what ever it took. Shouldn't people that are willing to make those sacrifices be able to work hard and accomplish that?
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Old 06-04-2007, 06:50 AM   #42
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"So what happens when you are 50+ years old and can only lay 90 bricks an hour, cut your pay? Make no mistake that day will come in your life, if you do physical labor. Look unions are not the answer to all the worlds' problems, but if you think big business wants a level playing field you're crazy. "

Cut the pay? ABSOLUTELY YES!!! When productivity goes down so should wages. Why in heck should someone be paid high wages because they are old? I had to quit work because I could no longer walk more than a few feet. The social security folks said TS Charlie. For 3 years I paid $2000/month for insurance out of my savings. That's $72,000 and put a big dent in the bank account.

We are the most productive and vibrant society in the world. I hope we stay that way instead of going the way of France with 25-40% unemployment.
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