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Old 06-04-2007, 01:17 PM   #43
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">For what it's worth. Before we go down in flames we should at least voice our opinions.

HERE IS WHERE YOU LOOK TO VOICE YOUR OPINION ON AMNESTY


FIND YOUR SENATORS AND CALL (DON'T EMAIL) THEM:

http://www.senate.gov/general/contac...nators_cfm.cfm

FIND YOUR CONGRESSMAN HERE AND CALL (DON'T EMAIL) HIM/HER:

http://www.house.gov/ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Old 06-04-2007, 04:04 PM   #44
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hamguy:
"So what happens when you are 50+ years old and can only lay 90 bricks an hour, cut your pay? Make no mistake that day will come in your life, if you do physical labor. Look unions are not the answer to all the worlds' problems, but if you think big business wants a level playing field you're crazy. "

Cut the pay? ABSOLUTELY YES!!! When productivity goes down so should wages. Why in heck should someone be paid high wages because they are old? I had to quit work because I could no longer walk more than a few feet. The social security folks said TS Charlie. For 3 years I paid $2000/month for insurance out of my savings. That's $72,000 and put a big dent in the bank account.

We are the most productive and vibrant society in the world. I hope we stay that way instead of going the way of France with 25-40% unemployment. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dean, according to your web page you were a criminal defense lawyer, not to be rude but that's a lot different than laying bricks in the AZ. sun. So according to you, a business should be able to work you into the ground for as little as they can get away with paying you, because the illegals will always work for less. Then when they burn you out when you're young, they can pay you less because they beat you down? That's a third world mentality, where is the compassionate conservative out look? JMO Mike
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Old 06-04-2007, 04:19 PM   #45
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"Posted June 04, 2007 08:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by hamguy:
"So what happens when you are 50+ years old and can only lay 90 bricks an hour, cut your pay? Make no mistake that day will come in your life, if you do physical labor. Look unions are not the answer to all the worlds’ problems, but if you thi Mike& Peggy
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Ain't life grand "

Mike and Peggy, your post is meaningless. What is your point?
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Old 06-04-2007, 04:31 PM   #46
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hondo122:

Dean, according to your web page you were a criminal defense lawyer, not to be rude but that's a lot different than laying bricks in the AZ. sun. So according to you, a business should be able to work you into the ground for as little as they can get away with paying you, because the illegals will always work for less. Then when they burn you out when you're young, they can pay you less because they beat you down? That's a third world mentality, where is the compassionate conservative out look? JMO Mike </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, a person, any person should be paid based on their productivity. In the firm I worked at, I was paid &lt;$80,000 including gas allowance, and some bonuses, and the 12 other defense attorneys wer making anywhere from 120-350K/year. The reason, I didn't do trial work and as my health failed, I didn't get raises.

Finally, in 2003, I was terminated. As I pointed out in another post, this resulted in my having to pay $2000/month for health insurance for 3 years until I was 65. That is $72000. I don't complain. People should be paid based on their contribution/productivity.

BTW, I had a great rep as an attorney even though I didn't do trials. I did preliminary hearings, plea bargains, motor vehicle hearings (over 2000) sentencings, initial appearances...IOW necessary but not work that will make a lawyer notable. I didn't mind as I began my career when I was 52 after 25 years in the electronics industry.
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Old 06-04-2007, 06:01 PM   #47
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Dean, guess we have to agree to disagree. I also think if you were terminated because of health problems your firm was wrong. I'm sure you made contributions, as you said, so terminating you was flat out wrong. They should have given you the opportunity to work on a limited basis and keep your coverage. Good luck with your health in the future, Mike
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Old 06-05-2007, 05:25 AM   #48
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"Dean, guess we have to agree to disagree. I also think if you were terminated because of health problems your firm was wrong. I'm sure you made contributions, as you said, so terminating you was flat out wrong. They should have given you the opportunity to work on a limited basis and keep your coverage. Good luck with your health in the future, Mike"

OK Mike but ponder this also. The auto makers in this country are all BROKE. Not because of any other factor than the fact they pay $Billions annually in insurance $$ to people who no longer work. More $$ to people who are do no work during model changeover. Those $$ must be factored into the cost of a car, making them NOT COMPETETIVE. Take it from there. That is why they, and other companies, are leaving.
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Old 06-05-2007, 06:10 AM   #49
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When faced with such social dilemmas, I often try to chunk it way down to me personally . . . that way I'm not letting my opinions wander beyond what is reasonable.

So away with rotten corporate America (the owners of which are typically hundreds of thousands of small stock owners) . . . and away with those lousy Democrat and Republican politicians (who are typically rich folks trying to become famous or push an agenda by spending our money) . . .

I look at the issue presented here this way with my own mind and sense of logic (simplistically - yes, realistically -also yes):

Say I have a person who mows my grass every week (an employee of mine, basically). She/he does a great job and I pay her/him $30 for each mowing. But alas, she/he becomes somehow incapacitated and is unable to mow. So what do I do? I'm just a middle class person trying to make things good for my family.

Now the dilemma becomes simple multiple choice:

A. Find a new lawn mower person who can do the job and wish the former lawn mower person well.
B. Find a new lawn mower person who can do the job AND continue paying the previous lawn mower (all or part of the wage).

I'm opting for A . . . I work hard for my money so that my family and I have a good life. Now have I been lucky? Sure --- and I find the harder I work, the better my luck. I've always felt it is MY job to protect my family and myself (financially) --- not the government's, not my employer's . . . and not yours!

Just my humble opinion . . . now the issues of enormous CEO salaries and crooked politicians are other societal problems we face, but I won't go into those.
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Old 06-05-2007, 12:27 PM   #50
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This is really funny I don't check in for a few days and you guys start sounding like Liberal Democrats!

It's basic Business Economics 101. Let's say your business is building block walls. If you employ a group of guys who have been with you for 20 years but can only lay half as many blocks as a 25 year old guy how do you compete with a company who only employees 25 year old guys. They can charge half what you charge and still make money. How are you going to stay in business?

That is where unions come in. The guys who are faster make up for the guys who are slower and everyone gets paid the same. Unions support Democrats because generally they are for the little guy as opposed to Republicans supporting the wealthy and large corporations. You don't need to tell me about your $500 child tax credit! This is about Millions and Billions of your money.

The immigration issue is very complex. Mexicans not only work harder than anyone else they do it for less money. If you eliminate the Mexican labor force the real question is who will replace the 12,000,000 workers? The suggestion on here was that we use child labor. I think suggested age was 14. I have to ask this. When is the last time you were around American Teenagers?

The economic reality is this. Mexicans produce twice as much for half the cost. Maybe a lot more if you are talking about a teenage work force. Just think about what that will do to food prices let alone construction and everything else that requires manual labor. Who is going to pay that cost? You are!

Every piece of food you put in your mouth has been touched at one point or another by an illegal Mexican! I still don't understand why most of you are so intent on P****** Off the very people who touch and produce all of your food. Do you ever wonder where E coli came from in Spinach?

Be careful what you ask for!

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Old 06-05-2007, 12:48 PM   #51
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Warren, you're right it is a personal choice how we respond. It's called social conscience. My wife and I have spent the last 7 months caring for her 88 yo father with Parkinson's, to keep him out of a nursing home. When we arrived he had a cleaning lady coming in 1 day a week. She's a widow raising a child. We really don't need her help as we are both capable of caring for the house. My father in-law isn't rich by any standards but he will outlive his money by a long shot, he currently writes $4-500 a week in donations to charities. Should we fire the house keeper? My wife and I discussed it at length, we decided to keep her on and keep paying her as she needs the money to support her family. This is basically our money as DW is an only child. Guess what, it feels good knowing we're helping someone. I worked union construction my whole life, when I had serious health problems 8 years ago, very close to death, my Carpenter Union Brothers raised money to help get the family through the rough times as I was unable to work for a year and a half. Union benefits paid $1,000,000 in medical bills. We all need to look at each other and think what if that was me, not because I'm unwilling but unable. JMO
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:58 AM   #52
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It looks like this bill is gone for now and hopefully forever. The Senators were probably shocked out of their boots at the response they got from the people who elected them. Maybe if several of them lose their jobs over this the rest will pay a bit more attention to what is really going on in this country.
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Old 06-08-2007, 01:45 PM   #53
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It just mean that nothing will change. I guess some might call that victory, but if there really is a problem shouldn't we be trying to solve it?
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Old 06-09-2007, 05:30 AM   #54
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Of course but we want to do it the right way.
One that doesn't snub our own laws and weaken our national security.

I am proud to say that I took some action in voicing my displeasure with a letter writing and e-mail campaign against this bad policy and I am proud of my fellow Americans who did the same.

Took action and not just complained or sat back

Another illustration of what is great about America. We DO have a voice...FREEDOM!!!




<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vegascpl:
It just mean that nothing will change. I guess some might call that victory, but if there really is a problem shouldn't we be trying to solve it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Old 06-10-2007, 12:03 PM   #55
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SCARY "MEXICAN" VIDEO

http://www.wehategringos.com/index2.shtml


check out the video and pass it on.


while half the morons in the States have gone ballisic and paranoid about an "enemy" half a planet away, we have 10's of millions of invaders invited in by the "elite" of this country, who have betrayed every man, woman and child and all our Ancestors who are decendents and inheritors of the only Culture and History in the history of this planet who have a heritage of freedom and the right to vote.

England, when a traitoris king invited the Saxon's in to defeat his enemies.

The invaders won.
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Old 06-11-2007, 04:05 AM   #56
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Mexican people really aren't like they are shown in the video we all know that. However, hate and racism brings out the radicals and those radicals can start problems you'll wish you never started. I've said several times on this board that when you discriminate against the very people who touch every piece of food that touches you mouth, it could mean big trouble.

Now I know that some of you are going say No we are nice people this isn't about hate and racism, but saying it doesn't make it so. If this is not racism then why do you direct everything against Mexicans? What about all the other people who are here illegally like Asian prostitutes? You see ads for them on virtually every freeway in the country. Who do you think staffs those soft touch massage places? Do you like Chinese food? Don't go in the kitchen none of the staff will speak English and they are all here illegally. Why is it ok for Cubans to just touch one of our beaches to be legal when it's virtually impossible for Mexicans to gain legal status? Is it about terrorism? No, otherwise we'd propose building a fence on the Canadian border.

We all know that many of these immigrants that you want to deport have been here for 30 years. They own houses and contribute to the community. It's just impossible for them to become citizens. Just think how good that will feel as we watch armed soldiers evict people from their homes that they have owned for 30 years and deport them. You say citizenship has to be earned.

When you push an agenda of hate those you hate will respond with hate. We talk about the Muslins teaching their kids to hate us. We preach hate against them. The people of Iraq did nothing absolutely nothing to us yet we hate them enought to invade and destroy their country. Just think if that happened to us? How would you feel about it and what would you do?

If we continue to push an agenda of Hate they will hate us in return and you might not like the consequences. We need meaningful immigration reform. However, you all just killed any possibility of that happening.

Michael

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