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Old 08-31-2005, 10:06 AM   #29
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Well today is amazing. Yesterday evening fuel prices in Uvalde TX were
........................gas $2.52, $2.62, $2.72 for gas grades and diesel was $2.46.
This morning same place gas $2.61, $2.71, $2.81 for gas and $2.54 diesel.
Today 1PM same place gas $2.81, $2.91, $3.01 for gas, diesel stayed at $2.54. Diamond Shamrock (cheapest fuel in town)
$0.29 increase on all grades except diesel in less than 24 hours. I thought price gouging was illegal! Crossing my fingers that they leave diesel alone, but the guy changing the sign was probably shot before he got to the diesel numbers. It is now cheaper to drive my one ton diesel weighing in at 8000 pounds vs. our Jeep Cherokee that weighs less than 4000 lbs ?????? Why sell super unleaded? We havent even bought mid grade in 15 years!
A pox on the speculators!
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Old 08-31-2005, 10:17 AM   #30
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Yes, you are correct Bush does not directly control the price of crude oil. However, soon after Bush took office the price of gas shot up because of an increase in refinery costs about the same time California had brown outs until the price of electricity doubled. Exactly what are refinery costs? Does it have anything to with oil company profits that went up to all time highs at the same time?

The next major spikes in price came because of the instability caused by the war in Iraq. That's when the Bush family personal friends, the Saudi royal family and the oil companies found out that we willing to pay whatever it takes to keep our SUV's on the road. As a result hundreds of millions of additional dollars have been flowing from the US and other countries into Saudi Arabia. Remember the campaign where we were told that buying drugs contributed to terrorism? Since 15 of the 19 terrorist involved in 9/11 and all of the money to make it happen came from Saudi Arabia one could easily argue that buying gas supports terrorism couldn't they?

That's the reason I feel that the oil companies who contributed the huge sums of money to Bush's campaign have in turn profited by being able to charge more for a gallon of gas. Does Bush control the price of a barrel of oil, of course not. Have his actions and policies contributed to the ability of others to send gas prices sky high? Could that be considered a pay back for election campaign funds? I'm sure you feel differently but I think the answer to those questions is an unqualified Yes.

I am confused about one thing that I'm sure you can help me understand. The administration says that the oil companies are not price gouging. How then do we explain the price to diesel, which takes less to refine than regular gas?

All of that said, when you own an RV you have no other choice but to pay the price. The depreciation on the RV alone is far greater than the cost of driving your RV down the road. We can, however, lessen demand by making a conscious effort reduce our consumption of oil. We can all help by buying fuel efficient vehicles, using public transportation, traveling less, walking and using bicycles. If everyone would just cut their consumption by a few gallons a day it would make a huge difference. They will keep raising the price until demand drops and there is a surplus of oil, that's the simple fact of life.
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Old 08-31-2005, 10:42 AM   #31
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vegascpl:
I am confused about one thing that I'm sure you can help me understand. The administration says that the oil companies are not price gouging. How then do we explain the price to diesel, which takes less to refine than regular gas? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Refining costs differences between today's low sulfur diesel and gasoline are small relative to current refined products pricing. As ULSD hits the market, diesel refining costs will be even closer to that of gasoline.

Consider the following:

1. Generally speaking, diesel carries a higher fuel tax per gallon than gasoline.

2. Again, supply and demand forces are at work. Relative demand for diesel versus gasoline and the available supplies of each can cause disconnects between the prices of these two refined products. Also bear in mind that diesel is in demand as heating oil and boiler fuel, and a first cousin of diesel (thus placing demand pressures on the available feedstocks) is aviation kerosene.

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Old 08-31-2005, 12:06 PM   #32
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At our local stations, Citgo and Speedway, outside our small town the prices were $2.599 for gas and $2.559 for diesel yesterday afternoon.

This morning at 10 am gas is $3.099 and diesel is $2.649 !!

So I hurried up and filled the motorhome since we are leaving on a trip next week. Should have done it yesterday.

Heard on the news this morning that Bush is going to release some of the reserve oil to help offset the price increases from Katrina.

Yep, That will do it George!!

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Old 08-31-2005, 12:10 PM   #33
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GStream40:
Heard on the news this morning that Bush is going to release some of the reserve oil to help offset the price increases from Katrina.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>Availability of more crude oil won't help that much since 8 refineries in Louisiana are shut down, 2 are operating at reduced capacity and 3 refined product pipelines are down. The net result is that crude oil prices will not go up nearly as much as refined product prices.

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Old 08-31-2005, 04:38 PM   #34
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This morning at 10 am gas is $3.099 and diesel is $2.649 !! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tonight at 6:00pm, gas is $3.19 to $3.48 and diesel is from $2.59 to one station $3.98. Not sure what is going on there unless someone put a 3 instead of a 2 on the diesel. We are parked for the LD weekend.
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Old 09-01-2005, 05:38 AM   #35
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by A.C.:
Vegascpl, I should buy a more fuel economy car? Bah! Ha! Ha! Ha! Give me a break. Never will I take that step again. Through the 80's and 90's I heard the same BS over and over. We live in a nation of big people and big vehicles. For nearly 25 years I drove in discomfort because some other talking head told us to conserve fuel. For what? They raised the prices anyway. That's when I gave up, and bought a full sized PU. Then a fullsized SUV. Traded that on another full sized SUV. Until they outlaw BIG vehicles I will continue to drive them. If gas continues on it's way up. I will travel less in my SUV. Then pretty soon all forms of business will suffer because nobody wants to travel around and spend money. Then when the enviromentalists begin loosing their jobs because of a drop in business, maybe they will see that their ideas failed. I say drill in ANWR. I say build more refinerys. Then tell the so-called Saudi "friends" to take a flying leep off a high cliff. God Bless America, God Bless GWB!


A.C. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, not wanting to turn this thread ugly but the shieks, mullahs, and terrorists hope you continue with that thinking. Nothing will guarantee our continued dependence on foreign oil more than that mindset. However, having said that, I have a Ford E-350 van with a V-10 that gets 10 MPG. The difference is I only use that when I have to. For normal driving around I have a Saturn that gets 33 MPG.

There is a finite amount of oil in the ground, (even in the untapped arctic tundra). Building more refineries and drilling more oil will just hasten the day that the US becomes totally dependent on others for our energy needs.

My heart goes out to those that were affected by this storm. However, I think this may be just what this country needs to FINALLY break our dependence on foreign boneheads.

You want to really stick it to the terrorists? Cut off their money supply. Do what you can to cut the energy usage of this country in half. Instead of electing politicians that espouse more oil production is the solution, vote for those that take a more balanced approach. Conservation techniques and alternative energy technologies are the ticket for energy independence. (BTW, I'm not a flaming libersl. I voted for W both times but realize now that his vision is not working - at least as far as energy is concerned).

We are the greatest country with the greatest military might in history. But we are losing the war on terror because of economics and our own arrogance. Thanks for listening.
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Old 09-01-2005, 06:20 AM   #36
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No one is gonna convince me that we are not getting ripped off by the oil companies. If an ant sneezes, they use it as justification to raise the price. It is price gouging pure and simple.
Some say reduce demand, and the price will go down. Who is gonna know if the demand went down? We could all not drive for a month and we would have no way of knowing if the demand really went down or not. How would I know that everyone else in the country didnt drive for that month? They could raise the price over that month and say demand is the reason and I would not be any wiser that it wasnt true.
The oil companies need to step up and help the economy during these times and not use it as a way of making more profits. And as far as the govt stepping in, they are worthless as well.
Until someone can actually show step by step why the price is what it is, I will continue to believe it is nothing more than a royal rip-off.
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Old 09-01-2005, 07:16 AM   #37
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AC,

The way you feel is definitely in the majority these days, but I really hope those attitudes change and quickly. This reminds me a joke a friend recently sent me from Germany. The title was "The Major Difference between Europe and the USA" There were two rather sexy pictures of two girls from the back. On the Europe side a very sexy girl, in incredible shape, with low rise jeans. On the US side the girl had similar jeans, but she was 100+ pounds over weight, on the bottom of the picture McDonalds burger and fries!

Sadly enough that is the way the world see us! That is when they are not calling us terrorists! Yes, we are a country that was blessed with plentiful natural resources. However, using them all up at a very rapid rate has had terrible consequences.

I realize that Bush is not one to believe in such things as science, but Katrina should be a wake up call for all of us. We just can't wish away things like global warming. There is no doubt that the ocean waters are warming and that we will see more Katrinas in the future. The entire world recognizes that we need to deal with global warming. However, we as the world's largest polluters, don't.

We have become a country of Fat, Lazy people. If you don't believe me just try to hire someone without a Spanish surname to do some physical labor.

How long do you think the world is going to sit by and watch us destroy the earth? You can slim me with names like liberal or environmentalist but that won't change the facts. We have to make some small changes in the way that we live.

It may well be that $4 a gallon gas will be the wake up call that we need. I drive an '05 40 foot Dutch Star and I still intend to drive it. So yes you might call me a hypocrite but I don't tow a car and rely on motorcycle and bicycles for local transportation. I no longer own a car. I rent one when I need one. It's a small thing but if we all did just a little it would make a big difference in the long run.
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Old 09-01-2005, 07:19 AM   #38
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Keep in mind that fuel is NOT priced like other items that are manufactured.

I'm not trying to defend the oil companies but to let you know the facts. Because oil is a commodity, prices are set by market pricing. This system was originally set up to smooth out pricing.

So rumor and perception have a huge impact on prices even though most of the time, they are not an actual reflection of costs.

Oil cost are set by oil futures contracts bought and sold in the marketplace just like stocks.

Dave (A former BP Oil Executive in Delaware)

<span class="ev_code_RED">PS: Found this DOE site that sheds some light on the</span> Cost Makeup of Gasoline <span class="ev_code_RED">of which crude oil makes up roughly 44% of the total cost.</span>
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Old 09-01-2005, 07:57 AM   #39
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The problem I have is not with the price of oil per barrel. The forces behind that are many and I wont try to understand it or justify it.
Where my beef lies, is how the price per barrel translate to price per gallon. I know there are many many things that go into the cost of production etc. I am pretty sure I had read once about a year or so ago that the if if the price per barrel went up $1.00, that would translate to about 2cents more per gallon at the pump. If my information is correct, then why does it jump up 20-25cents when the barrel goes up 1.00? Why does the price at the pump change daily? Does not the oil companies charge by the truck load? Shouldnt we be paying the price for the gas that is in the ground and not what the price might be when the truck comes the next time? Does not the oil companies have a certain cost for the gas that they already produced? Why am I paying today more for a product that hasnt even been produced yet? Why am I not paying what it cost the oil company to produce last week or last month or whenever that gallon of gasoline was actually produced?
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Old 09-01-2005, 08:51 AM   #40
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I can see Mike's point and have a few examples that show it both ways.

I buy delivered propane for my home approx. three times a year (200 gallons x three)from a guy that prices it this way... he buys say 10,000 gallons at price X from his supplier in say January. He sells that load to his customers at X + his markup. That price stays same till he is out of that load. His next 10,000 gallon load (in March)he has to pay 10% more for. He raises the customer price (at that time) to reflect this load. When that load is gone...well you see the pattern.

Then there is this guy that say owns a pipe yard. Has pipe of all sizes. Some stays in his lot for years, some only for weeks before it is sold. Remember when steel prices started climbing fast, well he marked up all his inventory (that he bought cheap years ago, and that he bought yesterday) to reflect the new higher price. He made a killing on his old pipe.

My propane delivery guy has a loyal customer following because we know we are not getting taken to the cleaners. Maybe this is because propane routes are very competitious and the pipe yard guy thinks, "you want to buy some pipe, you have to come to me." My propane guy does not control how much he pays for propane, but he does not charge his customers more until he is selling that new load.

Extrapolate to the oil companies: Say they have already produced X0,0000,000,0000 gallons of gas and have been selling it for X(It is in the system, waiting to go into our tanks). They should hold that price till that x0,000,000,000 gallons is gone, THEN raise the price if the next batch costs them more. That seems the right thing to do, doesn't it. Are they doing that ? NO
* I'm not singling out pipeyards persay, that was just a example of a commodity that did greatly increase in cost recently. That is however, exactly how the place I buy propane from operates.

OK I'm off my soapbox now.
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Old 09-01-2005, 10:04 AM   #41
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Robert,
My point exactly. Thank you for the comparison.
The huge increase in the last couple of days is supposedly due to not the fact that oil has increased, but that there is a problem in delivering it from the refineries and also in producing it until the refineries in the south are back on line. There are claims of possible shortages due to that. So if there is a shortage, then there is a shortage. Should the price jump 50cents because of that? Does that 50cent increase mean that the oil companies are saying they can get the gas to me if I am willing to pay the price? But if they leave the price the same as it was two days ago, they cant get the gas to me? Are they afraid they wont produce or be able to deliver x gallons over the next several weeks which would supposedly result in a loss of revenue for them, so they better jack up the price now and make their money now?
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Old 09-01-2005, 12:08 PM   #42
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Well as it stands now the only reason I have for not selling is that I don't think I can! I love my RV and would hate to lose it. My wife likes it also but would have no problem selling. I am NOT willing to give it away. So it will sit, this is the earliest I have ever shut down for the winter. IF I get to use it at all next year it will be for close in trips. It makes me sad to think I may not be able to see the ocean next summer. Time will tell, the Lord may bless us and we will be able to go. As in all things He is in charge and I am but his willing servant.
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