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EngineerMike · 08-30-2011, 04:12 PM

Volkswagon's only problem is they are taking the new standards too seriously. All anybody has to do to meet them is to add some slightly dolled up versions of a pogo stick to their "Fleet" so that "on average" the "Fleet" gets high mileage. Whadaya think GM does today w/its no-show Volt? If you add all GM cars & trucks up by sales figures (or almost anybody else's fleet) and divide by total units sold, they don't mimic the CAFE standard calculation. Its a gubmint "model."

Imagine what you would have to put lipstick on if a gubmint committee designed a super-model!!! SWEET!

Lindsay Richards · 08-30-2011, 04:17 PM

I have been talkikng about over the road trucks, not what you have mentioned. Is it possible that you do not completely understand the what I was discussing? The manufacturers of them do in fact understand them quite well and are screaming bloody murder. This is not the CAFE standards.

jspande · 08-30-2011, 04:35 PM

Sorry, I did miss the fact that you were talking about heavy duty trucks, I was thinking RV related trucks ("heavier light trucks" in VWs language).

jspande · 08-30-2011, 04:45 PM

Is this what you're talking about?

Industry Groups, Activists Hail Truck Fuel Standards | Journal of Commerce

They don't seem that upset! Perhaps I don't understand.

jspande · 08-30-2011, 04:54 PM

And here's another article.

Heavy Trucks, Fuel Efficiency, and Kumbaya? - Transportation Experts

From this article:

"The beauty of the heavy truck proposal is that it was largely supported by the trucking industry. President Obama thanked some of those representatives at a private ceremony at the White House. The American Trucking Association gave it the thumbs up, saying it moves the industry in the right direction. Smaller trucking companies were a little more dubious because they felt the government was moving too fast. "

I hope you can understand my confusion.

vegascouple · 08-30-2011, 05:13 PM

I drove the Volt and loved the car. I was going to buy one until I found out that it can't be flat towed. It's hard to say what kind of mileage you might get but the way I drive I'd probably get around 100 MPG. It costs about $1.50 to charge it over night with a standard 110 plug. It will run about 30 to 50 miles on a charge before the generator kicks in. Interestingly enough the oil companies are trying to get them banned from the highways. We are now waiting for the release of the Ford Escape Hybrid plug in.

The bail out of the auto industry has so far cost the tax payers $14 Billion and it's being paid back. That has nothing to do with the development of the Volt or would you prefer all vehicles come from Japan and Korea? That's not even one month of paying for our wars! We'd have paid that much in unemployment for the millions who would have been laid off. I don't understand the attitude here? Is it because you all love sending Billions of our money to the middle east? Or is a concern for the welfare of the Oil companies? We live in strange times our most profitable corporations are on welfare!

Michael
2005 Dutch Star 40' 4 slide
2006 Ford Escape Hybrid
2005 BMW K1200LT on lift

Lindsay Richards · 08-30-2011, 05:19 PM

OOIDA Is solidly against it. Some large trucking companies are for it. Drivers are not. 20% increase is not likely.

From the home page of ATA (asociation of large companies)

The National Wildlife Federation said the long-term impact of the fuel economy standards would cut 639 million metric tons of greenhouse gas pollution by 2030.

The American Trucking Associations said the Obama administration should follow the new fuel economy standards with a 65 mile per hour speed limit for all vehicles.

“While it is too early to know all the potential effects of this rule, we do know it sets us on the path to a future where we depend less on foreign oil, spend less on fuel and contribute less to climate change,” said ATA President and CEO Bill Graves.

The National Wildlife Federation said the long-term impact of the fuel economy standards would cut 639 million metric tons of greenhouse gas pollution by 2030.
The standards will cut U.S. oil consumption by 3.4 million barrels of oil a day, said Zoe Lipman, NWF senior manager for transportation and global warming solutions.

This is all about politics and global warming OOIDA The Association of Owner Operator is suing over it. You can hear them nightly railing about it on XX radio. Like all things political, this, the CAFE standards, and the oil drilling standards affecting fuel prices might just change drastically. None of this went through congress.

jspande · 08-30-2011, 05:25 PM

The CVTs (Continuously Variable Transmission) are not flat-towable, but at least some hybids are available with a manual transmission (the Honda CRZ for example. I have no idea if the Volt is, or will be, available with a manual transmission.

edj · 08-30-2011, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vegascouple

The bail out of the auto industry has so far cost the tax payers $14 Billion and it's being paid back. That has nothing to do with the development of the Volt or would you prefer all vehicles come from Japan and Korea? That's not even one month of paying for our wars! We'd have paid that much in unemployment for the millions who would have been laid off. I don't understand the attitude here? Is it because you all love sending Billions of our money to the middle east? Or is a concern for the welfare of the Oil companies? We live in strange times our most profitable corporations are on welfare!

There are some people who do not want the govt to do anything that may help any segment of society. They apparently would be much happier with a very small govt and big corporations running everything else. There are others that are against anything the current administration wants to do, even if it is what they were in favor of a few years back.

Of course, there are many who agree with you.

Lindsay Richards · 08-30-2011, 06:00 PM

New battery design could be game changer for electric vehicles

vegascouple · 08-31-2011, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jspande

The CVTs (Continuously Variable Transmission) are not flat-towable, but at least some hybids are available with a manual transmission (the Honda CRZ for example. I have no idea if the Volt is, or will be, available with a manual transmission.

The Ford Escape Hybrid as well one of their sedan models with an automatic transmission is flat towable. I'm not sure if the escape hybrid plug in model will be as it's probably a year from being in the show rooms. We are going to see a lot of exciting changes in cars in the next few years.

mythplaced · 08-31-2011, 09:47 AM

Here is my idea of ZERO EMISSION vehicle

RustyJC · 08-31-2011, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mythplaced

Here is my idea of ZERO EMISSION vehicle

Without getting too graphic, actually it's not a ZEV. It has the same emissions (although perhaps not in the same quantities) as horse-drawn carriages and wagons.

Rusty

GoGreen · 08-31-2011, 10:40 AM

Great debate! Engineer Mike's comments were the closest to reality. A couple missed facts though. GM loses money on every volt sold. It costs GM over 100K to produce each and every volt. Average sales price is 52K. Throw in federal and state tax credits for those who can qualify and point out the federal tax subsidies (GM has paid zero federal taxes since it became Government Motors and UAW Motors). Take out domestic and foreign sales of their only money makers which are gas hogging Trucks and SUV's and you still have a failed company. This is typical of any enterprise the government tries. USPS, AMTRAK, SS, Medicare/aid etc...Let the market pick winners and losers, not uncle sam.