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Old 08-31-2011, 10:14 PM   #155
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Great debate! Engineer Mike's comments were the closest to reality. A couple missed facts though. GM loses money on every volt sold. It costs GM over 100K to produce each and every volt. Average sales price is 52K. Throw in federal and state tax credits for those who can qualify and point out the federal tax subsidies (GM has paid zero federal taxes since it became Government Motors and UAW Motors). Take out domestic and foreign sales of their only money makers which are gas hogging Trucks and SUV's and you still have a failed company. This is typical of any enterprise the government tries. USPS, AMTRAK, SS, Medicare/aid etc...Let the market pick winners and losers, not uncle sam.
Don't know where you get your facts, I just priced out a completely loaded Volt (every option avaliable) for $46,165. They are bought for less every day.
If you take away the trucks and SUV sales from any of the three domestic (American) car manufacturers they are failed companies. People like their trucks and SUV's so thats what they buy the most. Check the sales for the last few years. The sales leaders are-------you guessed it!!!!! TRUCKS
GE also paid $0 Federal taxes for 2010. Several large corporations don't pay any Federal taxes.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:48 PM   #156
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the house the ZEV is in front of!
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Old 09-01-2011, 11:06 AM   #157
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IJ. I used Edmunds retail average and added tax and title fees for an "out the door" average price. My point was that subsidies funded by other peoples money (taxes) should have no place in a free market capitalistic society. If GM and Chrysler were allowed to fail the market would have responded to any market demand for product and bond holders would have been made whole by current bankruptcy law.

Companies are created and companies fail every day. Nowhere in the constitution are there provisions for the federal government to intervene in the natural process of a free market. This is how we got to where we are today. 15 trillion dollars in debt by meddling in the private affairs of free enterprise.
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Old 09-01-2011, 12:11 PM   #158
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IJ. Nowhere in the constitution are there provisions for the federal government to intervene in the natural process of a free market.
Sure it does . . .
  • The "Commerce" clause (Article I, Section 8, Clause 1)
  • The "Elastic clause" (Article I, Section 8, Clause 18)
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Old 09-01-2011, 12:21 PM   #159
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Sure it does . . .
  • The "Commerce" clause (Article I, Section 8, Clause 1)
  • The "Elastic clause" (Article I, Section 8, Clause 18)
Thanks TW. That's stretching it a bit. Regulating commerce between the states and foreign government does not grant authority for picking winners and losers via subsidies though. We'll see how Oblamers health care bill holds up next year in the Supreme Court using this same strategy.
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:10 PM   #160
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threat??? my my about as accurate as some other "facts"
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:17 PM   #161
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Isn't this threat about the Chevy Volt?

Sorry, that is a typo. Should have been thread not threat. It was a valid word and made it through the spell checker. Sorry, for any confusion. Mark it up to senior moment. They are come so frequently now they are starting to overlap.
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Old 09-01-2011, 09:08 PM   #162
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yep, we all do it, just pulling your chain a little, sorry.
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Old 09-02-2011, 09:27 AM   #163
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I understand that if a bank fianances your home they need insurance to protect their investement.
This car insurance thing always did bother me.
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Old 09-02-2011, 09:42 AM   #164
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Vehicle insurance is mandated by each state and not by the federal government. The federal government can not pass a law that we the citizens have to buy something.
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Old 09-02-2011, 10:13 AM   #165
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As for mandatory car insurance one would have to assume if you are against mandatory insurance you are OK with higher insurance premiums as your insurance company has to pay when it someone eases fault.

What possible difference does it make if it's a state requirement or a federal requirement? It seems to me this is just common sense!
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Old 09-02-2011, 10:32 AM   #166
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You have to buy auto insurance only if you choose to buy a car. Auto insurance is shared risk. Have an accident or a DUI and your rate goes up. You can also choose between many different plans. Some people now have catastrophic (thanks for spell check) insurance with a $25,000 deductabe. Makes since for them
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Old 09-02-2011, 10:57 AM   #167
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You have to buy auto insurance only if you choose to buy a car. Auto insurance is shared risk. Have an accident or a DUI and your rate goes up. You can also choose between many different plans. Some people now have catastrophic (thanks for spell check) insurance with a $25,000 deductabe. Makes since for them
If you don't get a car, that (non-existant) car can't cause an accident and therefore not pass it's costs on to those who are insured.
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Old 09-02-2011, 11:01 AM   #168
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This threaD is about the Volt. I'm disagree, but am not going to argue with you about it.
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