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Old 12-03-2011, 10:21 PM   #225
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Thanks for some REAL numbers and experience. Nice to have the negative hype and BS so nicely discredited...
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Old 12-04-2011, 02:42 PM   #226
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Chevy Volt review, by Consumer Reports.
Reading further down the page:
General Motors CEO Dan Akerson has announced that the battery for the Chevy Volt may be redesigned to address issues stemming from the fire that took place weeks after a Volt was crash-tested by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Akerson also said that GM would buy back Volts from any customers who feel unsafe in their vehicle; GM spokesman Selim Bingol said that no customer has yet requested that the manufacturer buy back his vehicle.
The exact plans for the potential redesign -- whether it would occur later in this product cycle or with the next-gen Volt -- are unclear.
In other Volt news, GM acknowledged it has given up its goal of selling 10,000 Volts this year. The automaker sold 1,139 units in November, bringing the year-to-date total to 6,142.

Now in my personal opinion, a fire that occurred weeks after a crash test is not indicative of poor design. The same fire can occur in a "standard" vehicle after a crash.
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:38 AM   #227
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I'm failing to see how a car that hasn't sold the numbers GM said would be an easy target plus 35 miles for electric, really people are happy about that? The fire wasn't a big shock for me, the fact it took so long to occur was though. Where is this big sucess?? Dan Akerson was appointed by Obama, anybody looked into what this guy stands for? I trust this guy as far as my 6 year old neice can throw him.

Why people are excited to buy a car that was built using tax payer dollars confuses me. It's like buying it twice, once to make it then to own it, not sure how buyers can ignore that.

I for one will never buy a Government Motors car, not just because of the bailout but because of the junk they try to pass off on the public. [moderator edit]
My best friend of 40 years finally has seen the light after 4 consecutive crap trucks and a brand new '97 Camaro whos dash wasn't bolted properly and nearly caused his death. You know he was a fanatic if he kept buying them (he owns 2 '69 SS Big Block Camaro's) but now he switched to a Ford truck and for the first time in 25 years I don't have to listen to his complaints about rattles, plastic falling off, lousy service and having to pick him up at the dealer because the dealerships stopped giving out loaners.

He has had the Ford now for 100k miles and it has never seen the dealership. I am on my 16th Ford since 1984 and have never been happier. I know there are GM faithful who will tear me a new one because they or their friend bought a crap Ford, but in the end I can only speak for me, my wife, my best friend and an entire large family of people who stick to the one company that didn't bend over and they are a much stronger company because of it and we are happy because the dealership only sees us at oil change time.

[moderator edit]
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:56 AM   #228
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:11 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by JBroadaway View Post
Love my Lincoln and I only paid for it once!!!!
The only thing I don't like about my 2010 Taurus is the massaging seats which I keep off. The near silent cabin at 70mph is quieter than my friends new Lexus and it rides so smooth you'd think it wasn't a Ford.

I fault Ford for calling it a Taurus, they should have kept the Five Hundred moniker, it was better suited and no previous Taurus was even in the same class, it's a whole different league car and I'd even say I like the cabin more than the one in the MKS.

I've had this Taurus for 2 years, it has been to the dealer 3 times, all for scheduled oil changes that I don't have to pay for. My Acura, Honda and Mercedes I've owned previously, none of them made it two years without issues, the Acura was the worst junk since GM I have ever owned. Why they used velcro to hold up the headliner makes no sense to me, having it sit on my head after 1 month of ownership and it being flat towed for engine issues swore me off of that company forever.

I realize Ford has had it's issues, but reliability isn't one of them, 26 years straight of worry free ownership spanning 16 cars says something.

Back on topic, GM is gearing up to make 5,000 Volts per month, at an average cost to BUILD of 41k while selling on average 125 a month and having literally hundreds available but claiming to be sold out. This car is proof that Government can build a car using tax payer money and then sell it right back to them, well try to anyway, not many have lined up.

Typically when you build more than you can sell you stop making them and in past years prior to Government Motors they would never continue to ramp up production on such dismal sales numbers, but hey, it's taxpayer money so why not? GM is showing everybody how rosey the numbers are and how close they are to paying off the bailout, does anybody really believe it, besides the ones who by default believe everything they are told that is.

The stock holders no longer matter at GM, but then neither do the tax payers yet some people are clearly sold on this venture as if they either can't do the math or their personal agenda is so strong they justify it anyway they can. Now we have the Volt "Buy Back" promotion, how awesome is that and only a Government run company would make such an offer after calling the car safe. But then they brought us "Cash for clunkers" which was another corrupt Government scam, ask thousands of dealers how they came out on that deal, well, the ones still around that is.

It turns my stomach what the Government is doing to GM... but then they kinda had it coming.
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:24 AM   #230
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I'll just keep my little old '08 Smart that gets 44.6 MPG and only needs an oil & filter once a year 3.5 qts and a lawnmower filter. Only paid $12,500 new. Just ordered a baseplate for it. Will let Ford Explorer stay home.
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:22 PM   #231
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from CNBC this morning. the president of AUTONATION.

"do you see any real interest on the part of your customers? yes. interest is extremely high. lots of conversation. sort of like with hybrids, 70% of our customers like to talk about hybridsment i ha. i have news for everybody, tend of the day, it's about price. consumers are not going to pay the price premium for electric vehicles and hybrids even with the government subsidies. so on hybrids we have a interest level of 70% and 2.5% of our customers finally buy a hybrid. that is after ten years on the marketplace. same thing with the chevy volt. it's a technical marvel. people come in. they like to drive it. they're excited about it. they think that's great. and they say, you know, i'll take a chevy cruz because the 42 miles a gallon at half the price. and if you think about it, the electric vehicles have government subsidies of $7,500, up to $10,000 in the state of california. you take away the government subsidies and there is nothing to talk about on electric cars. so prices will have to come down dramatically. that is a real challenge. at the end of the day, the american people are very practical. how much money does it save me at the pump or in fuel costs versus the up front cost? the up front cost is too high. they have other alternatives. mike? thanks for the report and the perspective."

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Mon 05 Dec 11 | 07:16 AM ET Mike Jackson, CEO of AutoNation, discusses automobile sales and the business of electric-hybrid cars.




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Old 12-05-2011, 03:06 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by raycon9 View Post
from CNBC this morning. the president of AUTONATION.

"do you see any real interest on the part of your customers? yes. interest is extremely high. lots of conversation. sort of like with hybrids, 70% of our customers like to talk about hybridsment i ha. i have news for everybody, tend of the day, it's about price. consumers are not going to pay the price premium for electric vehicles and hybrids even with the government subsidies. so on hybrids we have a interest level of 70% and 2.5% of our customers finally buy a hybrid. that is after ten years on the marketplace. same thing with the chevy volt. it's a technical marvel. people come in. they like to drive it. they're excited about it. they think that's great. and they say, you know, i'll take a chevy cruz because the 42 miles a gallon at half the price. and if you think about it, the electric vehicles have government subsidies of $7,500, up to $10,000 in the state of california. you take away the government subsidies and there is nothing to talk about on electric cars. so prices will have to come down dramatically. that is a real challenge. at the end of the day, the american people are very practical. how much money does it save me at the pump or in fuel costs versus the up front cost? the up front cost is too high. they have other alternatives. mike? thanks for the report and the perspective."

s Business
Mon 05 Dec 11 | 07:16 AM ET Mike Jackson, CEO of AutoNation, discusses automobile sales and the business of electric-hybrid cars.

Ahhh subsidies... as this would be a political rant I'll just... and call it a day.
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Old 12-05-2011, 03:09 PM   #233
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Crackerjack idea.....not to go there.

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Ahhh subsidies... as this would be a political rant I'll just... and call it a day.
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:37 AM   #234
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Crackerjack idea.....not to go there.
I figured you'd appriciate it.
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Old 12-06-2011, 05:57 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndeavorV10
I'm failing to see how a car that hasn't sold the numbers GM said would be an easy target plus 35 miles for electric, really people are happy about that? The fire wasn't a big shock for me, the fact it took so long to occur was though. Where is this big sucess?? Dan Akerson was appointed by Obama, anybody looked into what this guy stands for? I trust this guy as far as my 6 year old neice can throw him.

Why people are excited to buy a car that was built using tax payer dollars confuses me. It's like buying it twice, once to make it then to own it, not sure how buyers can ignore that.

I for one will never buy a Government Motors car, not just because of the bailout but because of the junk they try to pass off on the public. [moderator edit]
My best friend of 40 years finally has seen the light after 4 consecutive crap trucks and a brand new '97 Camaro whos dash wasn't bolted properly and nearly caused his death. You know he was a fanatic if he kept buying them (he owns 2 '69 SS Big Block Camaro's) but now he switched to a Ford truck and for the first time in 25 years I don't have to listen to his complaints about rattles, plastic falling off, lousy service and having to pick him up at the dealer because the dealerships stopped giving out loaners.

He has had the Ford now for 100k miles and it has never seen the dealership. I am on my 16th Ford since 1984 and have never been happier. I know there are GM faithful who will tear me a new one because they or their friend bought a crap Ford, but in the end I can only speak for me, my wife, my best friend and an entire large family of people who stick to the one company that didn't bend over and they are a much stronger company because of it and we are happy because the dealership only sees us at oil change time.

[moderator edit]
I wish I could have read your post before all the [moderator edit]'s
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:47 PM   #236
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On the subject of the volt buyback, there's only been 33 folks so far out of.

So far, there are 6100 Chevy volts sold for 2011, a bit shy of Chevy's goal of 10,000.

Chevy Volt misses 2011 sales goal - Dec. 1, 2011
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:55 PM   #237
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I think the real problem is with the design of lithium based batteries. Lithium is a very reactive element, hence it makes a good battery. The problem with most lithium batteries to date is the production of heat primarily due to the chemistry and the design of the materials used to separate individual cells. A lot of R and D is occurring to make a better lithium battery and for that matter a better battery. I don't think it has much to do with GM.

The total cost effectiveness of an all electric vehicle at this time is still a wash when one takes into account the environmental issues etc. , rare earth metals, cost of electrical generation etc.
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:35 PM   #238
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Exclamation Nothing But Facts

  • FACT – The battery is only $3,000…not $8,000-$10,000
  • FACT- The battery warranty is currently 8 years.
  • FACT- The Volt has a 9.3 gallon gas tank that does take premium fuel. (This is required because the premium fuel has better stability – which may be needed because it is not being used.)
  • FACT- The Volt is on roads all over the USA – including Illinois New York and Michigan. (Some of the cars in these states have over 15,000 miles already.)
  • FACT-The Volt will go approximately 35 to 50 miles on a single charge…and at that point the generator will kick on and manufacture electricity to keep you traveling for as far as you want to go.
  • FACT-The Volt costs approximately $1.50 for a complete charge – which will take you close to 40 miles. (Gasoline in California was as high as $4.00 per gallon just a short time ago.)
  • FACT-The federal income tax credit varies on PHEVs purchased in or after 2010. They may be eligible for a federal income tax credit of up to $7,500. The credit amount will vary based on the capacity of the battery used to fuel the vehicle. (The Volt is in the $7500 classification.)
  • FACT- This is a tax CREDIT based on what taxes the PHEV owner has paid in that tax year. (ie- if the PHEV owner only paid $4,000 in federal income tax…they will only get a credit for that $4,000.)
  • FACT-The Volt has been named a “Top Safety Pick” by the IIHS along with earning a 5-star NHTSA Safety Rating and also Motor Trend’s “Car of The Year” award along with other numerous awards.
  • FACT-The first NHTSA “Volt fire” happened with a Volt after it sat 3 weeks WITHOUT the proper crash protocol being followed after the side impact crash test.
  • FACT-Many Volt owners (over 89% are not concerned at all about battery fires-just under 7% are waiting to hear the NHTSA results-3% are somewhat concerned and only 1% are considering returning their Volts.
  • FACT-The Volt delivers 273 lb.-ft torque instantly with the feel of a 250hp V-6 engine. It accelerates from 0-60 in less than 9 seconds.
  • FACT- I have only used 17 gallons (including a single trip of over 600 miles) with an average of 126MPG at this point in time. This continues to go up by about 1MPG each day that I drive the car.
Are there any other questions you would like answered with facts and not conjecture or wild accusations?

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