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Old 08-18-2011, 03:43 PM   #15
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Five... What will be the cost of replacing the batteries in this Volt car when they ceas to function properly and what will happen to the ''old batteries'' when they are no longer usable?
Six. My great fear is that the cost of battery replacement will simply replace the cost of gasoline and all the money you ''saved'' by going electric will be paid back in the battery replacement. This applies to the ''combination, gas/electric cars also.........
If I ever decided to own a hybrid or pure battery electric vehicle, I would under no circumstances own it beyond the battery bank (or the vehicle, whichever expires first) warranty period.

JM2CW......

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Old 08-18-2011, 03:50 PM   #16
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If I use a Tesla or Volt for a toad can I send power into my MH as I travel down the road?
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Old 08-18-2011, 04:23 PM   #17
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I have driven the Tesla. What a nice ride. Too much $ though. Thats why I drive a Prius. Actually We have two of them. A red 05 for my wife, a green 06 for me. They have been great cars. I have never once had them into the shop for anything since I owned them beyond normal servicing. All that's been done is oil changes, tranny fluid changes and filters and adjusting the brakes. We could not have been happier and on top of getting 50 MPG the government paid me 7500$ in tax credits on each one to buy them.
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Old 08-18-2011, 05:36 PM   #18
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Wow, so much misinformation.

The "plan" was to save GM, and the around 1 million jobs represented by it and the automotive supply industry, not just the "Volt". And it looks like it's succeeding.

It did not cost the taxpayers $80 billion - that was a combination of loans and stock purchase. GM has repaid the loans, with interest, and the rest to be recovered when (and if) the stock value rises to the value we paid for it. Obviously there's no gaurentee that every penny will be recovered, but saying it cost us $80 billion is completely wrong.

Batteries are readily recycled, and common sense tells us these expensive ones will never be discarded.

Hybrid batteries typically have a warantee of 8 years or 150,000 miles. I drive a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid, and at 80,000 miles the computer said they were below spec (although the car worked fine). Honda replaced them at no cost to me.

I have 90,000 miles on the car and the original brake pads are still good (regenerative braking is such a good idea!). And the hybrid drivetrain is smoother and provides much better low-end torque (you diesel fans should appreciate that). At 1500 rpm up to 1/2 the torque in my Honda is contributed by the electric (electric motors produce high torque all the way down to 0 rpm), so basically I get twice the torque you'd expect for a gas engine alone.

Perhaps the best reason for an electric is that they're such a pleasure to drive. How many people pay a lot more for a luxury car rather than an economy model to get a smoother, quieter ride. Well, electric is a huge step up (over even luxury models) in that regard.

The first hybrids also had few sales initially (and the naysayers made fun), but have obviously become viable products.
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Old 08-18-2011, 05:45 PM   #19
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Get gas back to under a buck a gallon and tell me your hybrid is a good idea. I read a news story about how the "Green" industry is pushing high gas prices on the world to make their products a lesser cost option. Take away all the extra 'green' taxes and the "green" option is blown away as unaffordable, as compared the status quo. I think the 'green' bubble will burst very soon.
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Old 08-18-2011, 05:57 PM   #20
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Get gas back to under a buck a gallon and tell me your hybrid is a good idea. I read a news story about how the "Green" industry is pushing high gas prices on the world to make their products a lesser cost option. Take away all the extra 'green' taxes and the "green" option is blown away as unaffordable, as compared the status quo. I think the 'green' bubble will burst very soon.

If you think that gas will get back to under a buck a gallon, you are going to be disappointed. It will NEVER happen. China and other up and coming economies in Asia are driving up the demand for oil. They are buying up all they can get. The trend for the price of a barrel of oil is going only one way..... UP....
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Old 08-18-2011, 06:00 PM   #21
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Gas will get back under $1 a gallon when pigs fly, and we can all park our cars and ride flying pigs

But yes, it's still a good idea because it's a more pleasurable drive in my opinion. Or would you say only the very least expensive car is a "good idea". BMW, Lexus etc., owners might beg to differ.

Why is it that only hybrids and electrics have to be cheaper to drive to be a good idea???
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Old 08-18-2011, 06:32 PM   #22
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All electric cars have a limited audience, primarily those in a urban setting where they don't have to go far between lengthy charges. Currently I can go 400+ miles in my HHR and when empty pull into a "charging station" and in 5 minutes I'm off again. As I live in a rural area to even consider an all electric vehicle is folly. That leaves two options: (other that what I already have) a hybrid or a car like the Volt. I don't have anything against a hybrid but if it costs more than a regular vehicle it better get great mileage ao look like a kids toy. The concept of the Volt is is good. Drive on batteries until they are used up and then start the generator to keep you going. The show stopper for the Volt for me is it's too expensive even with the rebates, and the unknown about the batteries. Just not enough history. If it survives, in a few years I might have a closer look.
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Old 08-18-2011, 07:00 PM   #23
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AND, they do not lower your "carbon footprint" as that electricity is mostly coming from coal fired power plants.

Ed
Thank you someone finally gets it.. A electric car is so far from green its ridiculous but people don't see the coal burning to make the power plants run to make electricity.... Not only that what about the batteries that need to be made and disposed of and all the chemicals used to make them ... Now all the GREEN people need to check the carbon foot print.....
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Old 08-18-2011, 09:36 PM   #24
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All electric cars have a limited audience, primarily those in a urban setting where they don't have to go far between lengthy charges.
That's what the guy with the horse said about the "horseless carriage" a few years back.
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Old 08-18-2011, 09:58 PM   #25
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Thank you someone finally gets it.. A electric car is so far from green its ridiculous but people don't see the coal burning to make the power plants run to make electricity.... Not only that what about the batteries that need to be made and disposed of and all the chemicals used to make them ... Now all the GREEN people need to check the carbon foot print.....
My understanding is that when you generate electricity by the megawatt, the amount of carbon per unit of energy is less than when you burn gasoline. Does anyone know how the carbon footprint of a kilowatt hour generated at a coal burning plant compares with the carbon footprint of the equivalent amount of energy produced by gasoline?
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Old 08-18-2011, 10:11 PM   #26
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On the chance of being jumped on I have this question/suggestion....
The best batteries in the world have their limitations in stowage ability and they all take time to recharge from some power source. Just as a thought why dont we use NATURAL GAS. It is my understanding that we have more natural gas that Saudi has oil reserves now. We already have the basic engines that, with conversions, will run on natural gas. To my understanding there are lots of vehicles already running on natural gas and more are in the pipe line. With electric cars or gasoline/electric cars there is a lot of engineering required and the costs are tremendous and that is reflected in the cost of the cars. With natural gas, we already have the engines and mostly all we need to do is convert them to run on natural gas and a lot of our problems would solve themselves. The greatest problem with natural gas is finding filling stations that sell natural gas and the conversion of the fuel cell to hold natural gas in the vehicle. Just for fun ,,,, look around at the vehicles that are already running on natural gas and you will be surprised at the numbers you will see. The great thing is that natural gas is less than half the cost of oil products and WE HAVE OUR OWN SUPPLY OF IT so our money would stay right here creating jobs in our country instead of shipping our money by the boat load to some country that would like to do bad things to us.
Mind you, this is just my opinion and I will respect yours on this subject.
I am not trying to ''HIGH JACK'' this forum on electric cars I am just stating my opinion for something better than electric cars....

God bless our troops and bring them home soon ....
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Old 08-18-2011, 10:30 PM   #27
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Gas will get back under $1 a gallon when pigs fly, and we can all park our cars and ride flying pigs
With respect sir.... Gas is less than a dollar a gallon now. Stop before your laugh. When I say ''DOLLAR'' I mean a SILVER DOLLAR or a dollar that has real ''worth'' and ''buying power'' ..... The dollar you have in your pocket now may be worth ten cents in buying power. Think about it... How much do you pay for a soda, a pack of smokes, a simple candy bar, a cup of coffee and a thousand more things that I could list that your ''worthless dollar'' will not buy now ..... The big problem is that our ''money'' now is not worth real money. I will make you a deal..... You give me ''ONE SILVER DOLLAR'' and I will give you five gallons of gasoline. And I will become rich and you will get your GASOLINE for about
''TWENTY CENTS A GALLON'' in real money and we can all catch a PIG and go flying AND WE WILL NOT NEED ELECTRIC CARS.......
THINK ABOUT IT............


Lets bring our troops home NOW......
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Old 08-18-2011, 10:42 PM   #28
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Just as a thought why dont we use NATURAL GAS. It is my understanding that we have more natural gas that Saudi has oil reserves now. We already have the basic engines that, with conversions, will run on natural gas. To my understanding there are lots of vehicles already running on natural gas and more are in the pipe line. With electric cars or gasoline/electric cars there is a lot of engineering required and the costs are tremendous and that is reflected in the cost of the cars. With natural gas, we already have the engines and mostly all we need to do is convert them to run on natural gas and a lot of our problems would solve themselves. The greatest problem with natural gas is finding filling stations that sell natural gas and the conversion of the fuel cell to hold natural gas in the vehicle. ....
My understand is the same as yours Seajay and I couldn't agree more.... although I don't think it "replaces" the need to make progress on other options like electric and hybrids. The key thing is to stem the tide of dollars leaving the country!

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