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Old 12-10-2011, 08:27 AM   #267
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Would one of you "volt Guys" please answer this question?

Does the volt/prius save energy in total compared to the cruse/corolla??
(not just save gasoline)

I mean the total amount of energy( in other words life cycle cost for say 15years/150,000 miles.

including the energy required for:
manufacture
operation
maintenance
salvage


if it saves in total energy than it will be a success.
(and does not need taxpayer subsidy)
if it does not save energy than than you tell me.

thank you for your response
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Old 12-10-2011, 10:44 AM   #268
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Good question, but too analytical for me. I bought it because it fit my application and mostly because I liked it. To me it'd be like asking which pickup should I buy. The one who took the least bail out money? The gov has their finger in everyone's pie, I find it hard to believe that there is no one who doesn't have some form of gov money in their pocket.

The first year Prius' I purchased in my fleet had a subsidy, it only lasted a few years to get the pump primed and so will this one for precisely the tone and flavor of this thread. People are slow to buy technology they are unfamiliar with. Some buy because it's new, some because it's on sale, others wait and see.

So my counter to the "you mean ole people getting Grandma's tax dollars" is do a google search and see how much money we shovel out to countries we've never heard of. Any monies that come and go through our own economy works its way around several times and if it creates, maintains and keeps jobs here, I'm all for it.

But I'm one of the last people who only owns cars with domestic names. Yes yes I know it's a global economy and parts are made elsewhere, but I like to think my money goes to a company that at least comes from here.
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Old 12-10-2011, 11:53 AM   #269
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The Volt is an awesome concept with practical applications. I like the idea that GM came up with this, another win/win thing for our Country. I purchased a Prius prior to the Volt's release. DW commutes in it, 120 miles per day, and gets about 50 mpg. The Volt does even better! My motorcycles, 1000cc +, have always been the misers in fuel consumption but the Prius equals and surpasses the bikes. The Volt takes it to a new level.
We have needed this in our Country. I look forward to this concept being applied to larger vehicles including RV's. We are rolling in the right direction and I get a charge out it. Just my $.02!
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Old 12-10-2011, 10:17 PM   #270
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when the battey dies trhe car is totaled and how are the states going to get road tax from the not burned gas ?
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Old 12-10-2011, 10:42 PM   #271
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when the battey dies trhe car is totaled and how are the states going to get road tax from the not burned gas ?
I do not know about GM's policy on batteries but Toyota goes for the life of the car. Toyota had some failures in their early Prius batteries and that was fixed. The Volt has a newer design than my Prius and like most GM products today I would trust it. We really need this technology on the roads!
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Old 12-10-2011, 10:56 PM   #272
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My brother in law just had his battery replaced in his Prius. $5,000. Would you put that kind of money in a 10 year old car?? Maybe it will last another 10 yrs. Who knows. My wife's Camry is 10 yrs old and all it has ever had is general maintenance. 156,000 mi.
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Old 12-11-2011, 12:57 AM   #273
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I have heard that in WW2 germany had almost no oil... they came up with biodiesel...
I just sold my 99 Turbo diesel Vw Bug... my best was 52mpg... EPA rating on the window sticker was 49highway and 42 city... I averaged 47 with about 6 stoplight races per tank... It was a 5 spd and great fun... I bought B2 till the local coop stopped selling it... only draw back was that I got a little less mileage but it was faster... also made me hungry... exhaust smelled like taco bell..beans.... lol..
The bugs replacement is a 06 diesel jetta with the DSG... a new style trans that is a manual with clutches that shifts automaticly... no torque convert slipping.. I get about 45mpg but it is heaver... I just
met a guy at the grocery in a 01 diesel jetta. He had
350,000 miles and it looked brand new...
I drove the Volt.. slow... better when I found the performace button... here is what GM needs to do... put a diesel say about 1liter to power the gen... the fuel last for a couple of years before it goes bad....
But here is the best solution to the problem of emissions and oil... Hydgen..
Emissions are water... Mercedes and vw are doing it now..... and here is another problem of the world solved.... turn the excess solar and wind generated electric into producing hydgen from water.... I also hope that we will start useing the heat from our exhaust to power genereators.... check out Cyclone Power Technology... cypw is the stock sign... The military has given them a contract to design gens for tanks... Hell maybe gm should get a Cyclone to power the gen on a Volt...
my 2 cent worth
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:16 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by mercerc44 View Post
...$5,000. Would you put that kind of money in a 10 year old car??
A lot of people do, they just put it in a little slower through the fuel tank filler tube.
My Honda Insight I mentioned earlier saved me $5000 in gas in less than 3 years time, so if replacing a $5000 battery every 10 years is required, I would still come out well ahead.
It's all in how and where you drive it.
Diff'rent Strokes 'fer Diff'rent Folks...

Applying this to the Volt: If you are the type of person who drives 20 miles each way to and from work and only uses the car for your commute, then you would use ZERO gas for the ten(?) years that the battery is under warranty. Let's assume that you work 5 days per week and get 6 weeks of vacation each year plus major holidays off (I would like this job!). You would drive 220 days for a total of only 8800 miles driven per year, or a total of 88,000 miles over the 'life' of the battery without a drop of gas. If we compare that against a vehicle that got 35mpg (is your current car that good?) and average gas prices of $2.75/gal (lower than we have seen in some time) then you still come out just under $7000 saved versus gas. If prices were higher (is it unreasonable to expect that?), say $4.50/gal average for those 10 years, then you saved over $11,000. Having no oil changes should just about negate the cost of plugging it in...
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:15 AM   #275
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We don't seem to be too worried about the amount of batteries we throw away annually..

In 1989, 621.2 tons of household batteries were disposed of in the US, that's double the amount discarded in 1970.

In 1993, 80 to 95% of automobile batteries were recycled

The average person owns about two button batteries, ten normal (A, AA, AAA, C, D, 9V, etc.) batteries, and throws out about eight household batteries per year. About three billion batteries are sold annually in the U.S. averaging about 32 per family or ten per person.

Dry cell batteries contribute about 88 percent of the total mercury and 50 percent of the cadmium in the municipal solid waste stream. In the past, batteries accounted for nearly half of the mercury used in the United States and over half of the mercury and cadmium in the municipal solid waste stream. When burned, some heavy metals such as mercury may vaporize and escape into the air, and cadmium and lead may end up in the ash.

Looks like at least they have a plan to repurpose/recycle auto batteries..
GM's Chevy Volt Batteries Get a Second Life | Fast Company
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:30 AM   #276
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i live in an area with tva steam plants save your fossil fuel so we can make more steam so you can fill your fuel saving (?????) vehicle , who are we kidding i just read that a 2011 ford raptor f150 (v8 3 gazillion hp) put out less pollution that a weed wacker,\. china dont give flip about earth pollution while we are buying thier crap . how clean are we supposed to be c02 is a pollutant so i guess we gotta all stop breathing. the green revolution is really a marxist revolution and most of us (my self include) buy into this crap
buy american and you will do more for the earth that any other decision you can make
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Old 12-11-2011, 12:35 PM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercerc44 View Post
My brother in law just had his battery replaced in his Prius. $5,000. Would you put that kind of money in a 10 year old car?? Maybe it will last another 10 yrs. Who knows. My wife's Camry is 10 yrs old and all it has ever had is general maintenance. 156,000 mi.
How long does a Toyota Prius battery last? How much does it cost to replace one? - Yahoo! Answers

Check it out. Beyond this Toyota will give you $200 to take the old one and recycle it. The use of batteries from wrecks is a good option or just rebuilding one cell if that is the case. The amount of fuel saved compared to conventional engines is incredible.
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Old 12-12-2011, 09:35 AM   #278
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I have heard that in WW2 germany had almost no oil... they came up with biodiesel...
...
jeff
If I studied this correctly, I believe Hitler ran his war machine on synthetic fuel from coal. They had little to no oil, but they did have coal.

At the risk of hi-jacking this thread, it is unfortunate that there is not a bigger move to re-ignite the synthetic fuel industry. The US currrently has very limitted Synthetic Fuel production... but we do have some. The U.S. Airforce is currently the biggest purchaser of Synthetic fuel in the U.S. I suppose U.S. companies are afraid to invest in synthetic fuel as all OPEC has to do is open the flood gates, drop the price of oil, and synthetic fuel suddenly becomes financially unviable. This happened back in the 70's during the oil crisis. U.S. subsidized the construction of a synthetic fuel refinery, only to have OPEC flood the market and put them out of business.

I would think that today, with global demand being what it is, that synthetic fuel would be, and continue to be very financially viable. ... and when you consider that synthetic fuel can be made from coal or natural gas (both we have in abundance) I would think it would reduce our dependency on foreign oil and be an economic boom for the nation.
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Old 12-12-2011, 02:07 PM   #279
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Old 12-12-2011, 10:21 PM   #280
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It's a car.. not the second coming. It won't cure cancer, athletes foot, end hunger, or spread world peace.

It gets me back and forth to work and runs errands on the weekend and mostly not butt ugly or have a clown car horn. It's just a car.. not a kidney..


//TJ Speaking of horns I witnessed an SUV turn in front of a Prius tonight who clearly was in the right. The Prius laid into the horn to express his dissatisfaction. Bleat bleat


//TJ off
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