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Old 12-22-2011, 05:39 PM   #337
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Originally Posted by Forest Grump View Post
Wow, you are really upset. Compare the spec sheet for any other car to the volts spec sheet. FAQ - who cares. U Tube really?

What and where are its specifications? What is the battery voltage? What is the specific battery technology? What is the cars weight and the battery weight? What are the tire sizes? What are the charging sytem specs and what exactly is it? What kind of tranny? It has features and spec and a FAQ sections but they say nothing.
Here are some of the Volt spec. And I don't have one or even plan to get one.
Body
Rear spoiler

Tires and Wheels
Painted alloy wheels
17 x 7 in. wheels
Null spare wheel
P215/55R17 93H tires
All season tires


Roof and Glass
Variable intermittent wipers
Rear defogger

Towing and Hauling
Cargo tie downs

Measurements
Width: 70.4 in.
Height: 56.6 in.
Length: 177.1 in.
Front track: 61.2 in.
Rear track: 62.1 in.
Wheel base: 105.7 in.
Cargo capacity, all seats in place: 10.6 cu.ft.
Gross weight: 4533 lbs.
Drag Coefficient: 0.28 Cd
Curb weight: 3781 lbs.

Exterior Options
Front License Plate Bracket
17" 5-spoke Forged Polished Aluminum Wheels
17" Aero Design Sport Alloy Wheels w/Black Inserts

Many more spec at Link
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:35 PM   #338
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"I went to the Volt homepage to read the specs, there aren't any. Nothing about the engine, nothing about the battery, nothing about the transmission if one exists, nothing about the drive train. Is it air conditioned? What is the engines voltage? What is the engines efficiency? "

This is what MM so vehemently reacted too. That is what seemed odd to me no specs from GM/Chevy. Edmonds is not GM/Chevy. My statement stands and is accurate and correct. The Edmonds data leave more questions than answers, at least for me.
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Old 12-22-2011, 07:39 PM   #339
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Funny, they must have just updated the website, cause I found a lot of specs on the official site

2012 Chevy Volt Electric Car Features and Specs | Chevrolet

There are a bunch of tabs with the first being "Highlights" which among many other things clearly mentions air conditioning. The second tab is "drive train".

BTW, I don't ever recall engine efficiency being given on such a website.

And one quibble (a personal pet peeve) - electric motors are not "engines" although internal combustion engines can be called "motors".
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:23 PM   #340
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You're concerned that Lithium compounds in batteries are chemically reactive? How do you feel about the sulfuric acid and Hydrogen gas associated with lead acid batteries, and the volatile gasoline we so take for granted? Doesn't your gas tank contain the equivalent of a couple hundred "Molotov cocktails"?

Isn't it a little like having safety concerns about Poodles but unconcerned about a Grizzly Bear?

I just can't escape the feeling that there are a bunch of people who have their hearts so set on hating GM, in general, and the Volt in particular, that they will grasp at any straw.
As a side note to your reply; One gallon of gasoline completely evaporated in a 10' X 10' X 10' closed room has about the same explosive power as 32 lbs.of TNT. (learned that long ago in fire school) We motorists have become so accustomed to using gasoline we ignore it's dangers.
I have reservations about the Volt, but hope it reaches the point my DW and I will consider buying one.
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Old 12-23-2011, 10:01 AM   #341
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Some interesting findings from the Mackinac Center for Public Policy:
Average income of typical Volt owner $170K+. Cost for GM and US taxpayer to produce each Volt $250K. Looks like more welfare for the 1%.
Chevy Volt Sticker Shock: Government Motors Takes Us For A Very Costly Ride - Investors.com
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Old 12-25-2011, 08:13 PM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray,IN

As a side note to your reply; One gallon of gasoline completely evaporated in a 10' X 10' X 10' closed room has about the same explosive power as 32 lbs.of TNT. (learned that long ago in fire school) We motorists have become so accustomed to using gasoline we ignore it's dangers.
I have reservations about the Volt, but hope it reaches the point my DW and I will consider buying one.
Take that same gallon of gasoline in a bucket and light it, if you can. Put a gallon of lithium in your can, light it now try to put it out. Lithium doesn't exist in nature as the pure element it is so reactive. Use water it goes boom.
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Old 12-26-2011, 02:13 AM   #343
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I heard that GM is developing a new LT truck based on the Volt. If it is capable of hauling a 5th wheel it just might get some respect. I don't when it will be released or the particulars but it is coming.
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Old 12-26-2011, 08:30 AM   #344
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As soon as I see/hear the phrase "Government Motors", I totally ignore anything the person has to say about the subject. I figure if they are not intelligent enough to call a company/person by its proper name, they are completely ignorant of the facts.

As far as the cost goes, the early models of any new design are much more expensive to cover the development costs. How much more expensive is up to the company on how they pro-rate the costs across each vehicle.
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Old 12-26-2011, 10:21 AM   #345
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Some interesting findings from the Mackinac Center for Public Policy:
Average income of typical Volt owner $170K+. Cost for GM and US taxpayer to produce each Volt $250K. Looks like more welfare for the 1%.
Chevy Volt Sticker Shock: Government Motors Takes Us For A Very Costly Ride - Investors.com
It's a dead giveaway that an article is a propaganda piece from an advocacy group when they use a non-word like "ObamaCar" in the title. That is simply not something a reputable study would ever do.

I briefly skimmed it and apparently they added up all local, state and federal tax exemptions for advanced battery technology development, along with any electric or hybrid vehicle purchase subsidies, etc., and pretended they should be counted as applying just to the Volt.

What do you suppose the "taxpayers" are subsidizing RVers if you assumed all oil and gas tax incentives over the years should be counted just as RV subsidies?
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Old 12-26-2011, 10:37 AM   #346
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Unfortunately the Volt and any other "plug-in concept" type vehicle will not sell. The same individuals (and you know who you are) that drive the family car will just neglect to plug it in. This will add to the strife of the family unit. Typical conversations will start with "honey did you remember to plug in the volt?" With a typical response being "I thought it was your turn. I took out the trash remember?" Happy Holidays RV'rs!
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Old 12-26-2011, 10:38 AM   #347
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That is true but lithium is also very reactive, chemically. Combine the two and now you safety concerns.
I don't understand the point. Now I've forgotten most of my chemistry so forgive me if I'm in error, but you're talking Lithium metal - right? That is very reactive, although if I remember right Sodium metal is even more reactive (dangerous), but it's salt, Sodium Chloride, is common table salt and pretty darn safe.

Unless I'm mistaken, there's no Lithium metal in Lithium-Ion batteries (that's what they are, not Lithium). The batteries contain the salt Lithium Iron Phosphate. Lithium ions carry the electric charge between anode and cathode during charge and discharge.
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Old 12-26-2011, 04:44 PM   #348
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I don't understand the point. Now I've forgotten most of my chemistry so forgive me if I'm in error, but you're talking Lithium metal - right? That is very reactive, although if I remember right Sodium metal is even more reactive (dangerous), but it's salt, Sodium Chloride, is common table salt and pretty darn safe.

Unless I'm mistaken, there's no Lithium metal in Lithium-Ion batteries (that's what they are, not Lithium). The batteries contain the salt Lithium Iron Phosphate. Lithium ions carry the electric charge between anode and cathode during charge and discharge.
Now don't go confusing the issue with "Science"...Opinions are much more fun to read!
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Old 12-28-2011, 12:08 AM   #349
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The Volt uses a lithium ion battery the chemistry of which is hard to determine. The cells are made in Korea and assembled by Chevy. The electrolyte is not an aqueous base but organic. It is not aqueous because lithium and water do not play well together. The exact chemical nature of the lithium ion battery can be one of several different forms. Lithium batteries can and do burn as with the volt. Putting out a lithium fire would be very interesting. Lithium batteries can discharge very very fast producing heat ..... And other problems.

I am sure eventually a good safe lithium battery for automotive use can and will be made. Will GM be the one to do it? Only if the market is there and I just don't think it is because the economics are not there and GM financially isn't there either.

Chemical reactions are reversible. Lithium metal wants to loose it's electron so much so it does not exist in nature as the pure metal but the reverse does happen too. Disasters happen when several things go wrong at the same time. Having not one but two or more of the Volts batteries burst into flames suggests that they have a significant problem on their hands where conditions have existed for a disaster to occur. They need to define these conditions and redesign the battery.
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:32 AM   #350
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But this FUD ("fear, uncertainty and doubt") over the Volt's battery is rendered a bit silly by the test results themselves. It took 1 to 3 weeks for this chemical reaction(s) to reach ignition - that's hardly "highly reactive".

I realize that a number of people so hate GM over the government assistance issue that they'll grasp at any straw, but to complain about a fire "hazard" that takes a week to develop after a crash when gas tanks can and have ignited almost immediately (often with fatal results) is simply ridiculous.

If one is in a crash where it takes emergency crews more than a week to exticate you from the wreckage, I'd say a Lithium Ion battery would be the least of your problems
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