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Old 08-18-2011, 11:28 PM   #29
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T Boone Pickens was trying to start a movement a couple years back to replace a lot of fossil fuel power generation with wind energy, and then use our abundant reserves of natural gas to fuel the next generation of cars and trucks because it's here and the distribution network is in place (unlike other proposed fuels like hydrogen). It's also relatively easy to convert gasoline and diesel vehicle designs to natural gas.

Of course, ol T Boone has a lot of financial interest in wind companies and Natural gas. Not the worst idea though - potentially much cleaner air.

You get efficiencies in the production of electric power over the use of gasoline because the operating point of a gas turbine running at a single RPM can be tuned to peak efficiency while the powerband required to operate a gasoline engine over a wider range of RPM prevents it from being highly efficient at any single point (as compared to the turbine). Steam plants are even more efficient but take longer to build and are much more expensive.
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Old 08-19-2011, 12:17 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by mavric65 View Post
Thank you someone finally gets it.. A electric car is so far from green its ridiculous but people don't see the coal burning to make the power plants run to make electricity.... Not only that what about the batteries that need to be made and disposed of and all the chemicals used to make them ... Now all the GREEN people need to check the carbon foot print.....
my electricity comes from hydro wind and Soon, solar. Half of the us could start there own micro power companies if they wanted to. A grid tied 5kw solar system on 1000 houses is how many?
Dino fuels are going away so you can lead follow or get out of the way. I guess taking 5 seconds to plug your car in every night is just to much work for some people. Maybe the gratifcation isn't instant enough.
I cant wait to get an electric car, i just need a little more mileage.
It irks me a tad when someone tries to fnd a way to help out the world a little at a time and are criticised because its not good enough for some. There is no One answer. There are alot of small steps in a mile.

Its like getting an A in school and getting punished for not getting an A+.

Sorry for ranting
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Old 08-19-2011, 04:47 AM   #31
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TAAAAAAAA, DAAAAAAAAHHHHH..... Brilliant idea........
You guys ready ??????????
Here it comes ..................
The solution is so simple you are gonna hate yourself for not thinkin' of it before I did...............
Ok. Here it comes ....


Take a battery powered car....
Drive it down the road.....

Put a giant windmill on top of the battery powered car....
Let the forward motion of the car supply the breeze for the windmill
Let the windmill produce the D.C. power to recharge the battery
Let the electric motor in the car, RUN OFF THE BATTERY.......
I ARE SO SNART.... I just solved the energy crisis ....
Why aint I working for the government???????
The only problem I see is that with all the cars with windmills on top we could ''WEAR OUT THE AIR EVENTUALLY''........

(things were getting very serious and I figured we needed a chuckle about now)........... (you guys can go back to being serious now)
remember this .... If you use my idea you must pay me ten cents.......

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Old 08-19-2011, 06:36 AM   #32
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Well, I'm not a huge fan, but I had to bring in a company vehicle for repairs the other day. I took it to our local Chevy place- there was a Volt on display...a bright lipstick red one. It looked really cool. I got in and it was very comfortable. I was working so I could not drive it but what I saw impressed me.
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Old 08-19-2011, 07:03 AM   #33
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I have a friend who owns a Chevrolet Volt. That is an amazing car. It's passenger load is 4. It has a travel range of 60 miles on the batteries, after that the generator kicks in without any hesitation, and you can continue traveling untill you run out of fuel. The generator fuel tank I belive is 7 gallons.
She gets a 5,000 Fed.dollar tax credit. Nothing from the State of Califorina. It is a very pretty Red car. She charges the batterys at her home or the car generator in case she is driving. Rest assured she will not park it in a wallmart parking lot. I drove the car and it is nice. There is a different incenitive for her if and when she needs new batteries. I am thinking of buying one for my wife.
Oh did I mention in the 3 months she has owned the car, she has only used 8 gallons of fuel. I hope I didn't step on anybodys toes, but some of the figures stated in "replys" are wrong.
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Old 08-19-2011, 07:59 AM   #34
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For some, being an old codger against every new idea is a way of life. Some of us know that new innovations always start out slowly and impractically expensive. My first computer hard drive held a whopping 70 megs of data, cost me a thousand dollars, and lasted all of 14 months before dying. The "codgers" back then were sure the floppy drive was all that was needed.
Hang on to your buggy whips guys the future is going to be exciting!
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Old 08-19-2011, 08:39 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by okie-dokie;934642
She gets a 5,000 Fed.dollar tax credit. Nothing from the State of Califorina. It is a very pretty Red car. She charges the batterys at her home or the car generator in case she is driving. Rest assured she will not park it in a wallmart parking lot. I drove the car and it is nice. [COLOR=Red
There is a different incenitive for her if and when she needs new batteries. [/COLOR] I am thinking of buying one for my wife.
FYI. I just Googled the estimated replacement cost of the battery pack in a Volt and it is between EIGHT THOUSAND AND TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS. Hummmmm? I wonder how long it will be before they put a ''special road tax'' on battery powered cars because they are using the roads and paying little or no ''road taxes''... Here in NC the ''road taxes on gasoline'' is almost fifty cents per gallon...... Wonder if the Fed is going to supplement 5000 in tax credit to the second owner of that car when she trades it in????
Just food for thought.....

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Old 08-19-2011, 11:21 AM   #36
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Seajay,
You are right. The whole electric car thing is a joke with current technology. If the government will finally let loose the hold they have on energy production in this country, gas prices will drop and we'll have plenty without having to worry about Arabs supplying us. Of course in the very long run, some alternate way to run things since fossil fuels are finite.
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Old 08-19-2011, 11:52 AM   #37
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I read (can't recall where offhand) the Volt battery will cost $14,000. Now, I'm not against new technology, but I'll buy the newest best thing when it becomes economically feasible and not before. I'm hopeful that American ingenuity will come forward and save the day by coming up with alternatve energy sources. Until then, the politicians need to get off their duffs and come up with a comprehensive energy plan that helps wean us off our enemies' oil, uses our own oil, coal, gas, etc., and at reasonable cost. We are not Europe or China; we're better than that.
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Old 08-19-2011, 12:55 PM   #38
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ralphie, I agree with you completely. James Watts improved the steam engine (1770's) and although we have more wizz bang now, it's still the same principles he advanced.

Nuclear power? It still heats water to spin turbines, and that is latest mass power producer. It is easier to say we're better than that but right now we are not proving it.

These little golf carts with an auto body are okay to run around the suburbs. And that is in moderate climates (CA), in the Michigan below zero weather and the 110 degrees AZ weather(air conditioner) the mileage from storage batteries is sometimes less than half of advertised.

We need American ingenuity now as much as we needed it in WWII.

Kerry
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Old 08-19-2011, 01:25 PM   #39
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Hey fellows remember when the first color TVs were several thousand dollars; and the color wasn't that great; now flat screens are just a couple hundred. And we have HD.
Give it time, electrics are the comming thing and they will get better and cheaper.
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Old 08-19-2011, 03:52 PM   #40
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As to the replacement cost for a Volt battery pack, remember that today's price is meaningless, only the cost 8-10 years from now (the earliest that an out-of-warranty replacement would happen).

And RVers should welcome the fact that such electric vehicles spur battery development and bring the cost down for our use as well. If you do a Google search, you'll find that a couple of companies are already selling Lithium RV battery packs, that some high-end MH already come with them, and the price is coming down so all of us may be able to afford their substantial benefits in the not-too-distant future (half the weight, smaller size, much faster charge times, longer life, low self-discharge, more constant voltage, ...).
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Old 08-19-2011, 04:03 PM   #41
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You get efficiencies in the production of electric power over the use of gasoline because the operating point of a gas turbine running at a single RPM can be tuned to peak efficiency while the powerband required to operate a gasoline engine over a wider range of RPM prevents it from being highly efficient at any single point (as compared to the turbine). Steam plants are even more efficient but take longer to build and are much more expensive.
Thermal efficiencies of oil and coal-fired steam plants run in the lower to mid 30% range. Natural gas-fueled simple cycle gas turbine plants can be in the high 20% range for old design gas turbines but with more modern (higher firing temperature) industrial and aero-derivative gas turbines can approach 40%. In combined cycle gas turbine plants where the waste heat from the gas turbine is recovered and used to drive a steam turbine to generate additional electricity, thermal efficiencies can exceed 50%. Of course, none of these efficiencies reflect the transmission losses to get the power from the power plant through the grid to the point where recharging will be performed, the losses in the charging system itself and the losses in the battery/electric motor drive system in the electric vehicle.

Rusty
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Old 08-19-2011, 04:14 PM   #42
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A big problem with "only" battery cars is heat and cold. The heater is electric and the air conditioner is electric. So if you get stuck in traffic you will be using up your battey just to keep warm in the winter or cool in the summer. I don't think the advertised range on the only battery cars takes into consideration using the heater or the AC. Rolling up or down your windows uses electricty, unless they have a crank.
Greg
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