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08-31-2011, 09:14 PM
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#155
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoGreen
Great debate! Engineer Mike's comments were the closest to reality. A couple missed facts though. GM loses money on every volt sold. It costs GM over 100K to produce each and every volt. Average sales price is 52K. Throw in federal and state tax credits for those who can qualify and point out the federal tax subsidies (GM has paid zero federal taxes since it became Government Motors and UAW Motors). Take out domestic and foreign sales of their only money makers which are gas hogging Trucks and SUV's and you still have a failed company. This is typical of any enterprise the government tries. USPS, AMTRAK, SS, Medicare/aid etc...Let the market pick winners and losers, not uncle sam.
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Don't know where you get your facts, I just priced out a completely loaded Volt (every option avaliable) for $46,165. They are bought for less every day.
If you take away the trucks and SUV sales from any of the three domestic (American) car manufacturers they are failed companies. People like their trucks and SUV's so thats what they buy the most. Check the sales for the last few years. The sales leaders are-------you guessed it!!!!! TRUCKS
GE also paid $0 Federal taxes for 2010. Several large corporations don't pay any Federal taxes.
Indiana Journey
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08-31-2011, 09:48 PM
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#156
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Senior Member
Alpine Owners Club Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 1,357
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the house the ZEV is in front of!
__________________
Michael (Home base Northern IL)
Alpine 40MDTS (gone but not forgotten)
Now Dynaquest 390XL
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09-01-2011, 10:06 AM
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#157
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Mount Vernon, WA
Posts: 22
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IJ. I used Edmunds retail average and added tax and title fees for an "out the door" average price. My point was that subsidies funded by other peoples money (taxes) should have no place in a free market capitalistic society. If GM and Chrysler were allowed to fail the market would have responded to any market demand for product and bond holders would have been made whole by current bankruptcy law.
Companies are created and companies fail every day. Nowhere in the constitution are there provisions for the federal government to intervene in the natural process of a free market. This is how we got to where we are today. 15 trillion dollars in debt by meddling in the private affairs of free enterprise.
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09-01-2011, 11:11 AM
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#158
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Mariposa, CA
Posts: 3,926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoGreen
IJ. Nowhere in the constitution are there provisions for the federal government to intervene in the natural process of a free market.
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Sure it does . . .
- The "Commerce" clause (Article I, Section 8, Clause 1)
- The "Elastic clause" (Article I, Section 8, Clause 18)
__________________
2003 - 2010: 2004 35' National RV Sea Breeze LX 8341
2010 - 2021: 2001 41' Newmar Mountain Aire 4095
2021 - ???? : 2001 31' National RV Sea View 8311
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09-01-2011, 11:21 AM
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#159
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Mount Vernon, WA
Posts: 22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TechWriter
Sure it does . . .
- The "Commerce" clause (Article I, Section 8, Clause 1)
- The "Elastic clause" (Article I, Section 8, Clause 18)
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Thanks TW. That's stretching it a bit. Regulating commerce between the states and foreign government does not grant authority for picking winners and losers via subsidies though. We'll see how Oblamers health care bill holds up next year in the Supreme Court using this same strategy.
__________________
2008 Daybreak, Honda Fit Toad, H&K .40S&W Security System
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09-01-2011, 07:10 PM
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#160
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Stillwater, Ok
Posts: 4,812
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threat??? my my about as accurate as some other "facts"
__________________
2020 New Aire 3543
2018 Lincoln MKX
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09-01-2011, 07:17 PM
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#161
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Tavares, FL
Posts: 1,652
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Quote:
Isn't this threat about the Chevy Volt?
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Sorry, that is a typo. Should have been thread not threat. It was a valid word and made it through the spell checker. Sorry, for any confusion. Mark it up to senior moment. They are come so frequently now they are starting to overlap.
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09-01-2011, 08:08 PM
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#162
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Stillwater, Ok
Posts: 4,812
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yep, we all do it, just pulling your chain a little, sorry.
__________________
2020 New Aire 3543
2018 Lincoln MKX
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09-02-2011, 08:27 AM
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#163
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,378
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I understand that if a bank fianances your home they need insurance to protect their investement.
This car insurance thing always did bother me.
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09-02-2011, 08:42 AM
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#164
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 799
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Vehicle insurance is mandated by each state and not by the federal government. The federal government can not pass a law that we the citizens have to buy something.
__________________
2005 Dutch Star 4015
Cummins ISL
2007 Honda CR-V
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09-02-2011, 09:13 AM
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#165
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 143
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As for mandatory car insurance one would have to assume if you are against mandatory insurance you are OK with higher insurance premiums as your insurance company has to pay when it someone eases fault.
What possible difference does it make if it's a state requirement or a federal requirement? It seems to me this is just common sense!
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09-02-2011, 09:32 AM
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#166
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Tavares, FL
Posts: 1,652
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You have to buy auto insurance only if you choose to buy a car. Auto insurance is shared risk. Have an accident or a DUI and your rate goes up. You can also choose between many different plans. Some people now have catastrophic (thanks for spell check) insurance with a $25,000 deductabe. Makes since for them
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09-02-2011, 09:57 AM
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#167
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Aguanga, CA, USA
Posts: 239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindsay Richards
You have to buy auto insurance only if you choose to buy a car. Auto insurance is shared risk. Have an accident or a DUI and your rate goes up. You can also choose between many different plans. Some people now have catastrophic (thanks for spell check) insurance with a $25,000 deductabe. Makes since for them
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If you don't get a car, that (non-existant) car can't cause an accident and therefore not pass it's costs on to those who are insured.
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09-02-2011, 10:01 AM
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#168
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Tavares, FL
Posts: 1,652
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This threaD is about the Volt. I'm disagree, but am not going to argue with you about it.
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