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Old 07-07-2013, 12:10 AM   #1
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Cigar Smoking

Tonight a bunch of friends and I were sitting outside enjoying a beautiful night around a campfire. 3 of the guys were smoking nice cigars. After about an hour, the RV owner in the site next to us comes over and asks us to put out our cigars because he could smell the cigar smoke in his coach. He stated that he likes to be able to camp with his windows open, and he should not have to smell our smoke. One of my buddies was really pissed off as we were smoking really expensive cigars and he didn't want to put them out. I thought it was smarter to take the high road and asked everyone to put out their cigars. Afterwards I began to evaluate the situation and I was really thinking that it was not right. I have been camping for many years with my buddies, and one of the things we all look forward to is sharing some nice cigars outside around a campfire. This is the first time that we ever had a situation like this. I know that not many people share my love of cigars, but I also know that we put up with undesirable situations from other folks. I have camped next to people that have loud kids, barking dogs, and all sorts of malodorous outdoor cooking smells. I have never asked someone to stop cooking fish, shut up their kids, shut up their dogs, or stop burning their campfire. This is camping and sometimes one person's pleasure is another person's displeasure. What say you? All opinions are ok.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:30 AM   #2
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Please pass the cognac, cutter and lighter.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:33 AM   #3
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Smoking is a very touchy subject for some. I enjoy a cigar myself and probably would have put it out.

Now if he pulled in while we were sitting there smoking and asked, I would have said no.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:44 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDR John
Smoking is a very touchy subject for some. I enjoy a cigar myself and probably would have put it out.

Now if he pulled in while we were sitting there smoking and asked, I would have said no.
At $15 and up - I'm afraid he's going to have to close the window. Or he can fork over something of equal value and the cash will do. The price on singles is on the wrapper. Boxed not so much but I don't buy em by the box anymore. One now and then - patio or campground with friends. Touchy subject or not - the only place you can smoke a cigar is outside. Most folks don't smoke them end to end - a good one can take some time. I'd explain - just this one and we'll be done. Sorry. JMHO but his preference to have window open doesn't trump right of others to have a cigar. Flame on.
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:03 AM   #5
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Well.....since you asked. I think if you and your friends are going to enjoy smoking....you are probably going to need to understand that Societies' patience to the burning of a carcinogenic substance is getting less and less tolerant. Is this fair? Well please read this quote from the American Cancer Society concerning second hand smoke and ask yourself if you'd object to someone burning a life threatening (cancer) substance next to you, your wife & your children?...... I don't think you are going to find the moral "high ground" on this one....certainly not from me......but good luck!

What about secondhand cigar smoke?
Because cigars contain more tobacco than cigarettes, and because they often burn for much longer, they give off greater amounts of secondhand smoke. This is also known as environmental tobacco smoke (ETS) or passive smoke. Secondhand smoke includes both the smoke from the end of the burning cigar and the smoke exhaled by the smoker.

All tobacco smoke, whether from cigarettes, pipes, or cigars, is known to cause cancer. In general, secondhand smoke from cigars contains many of the same toxins (poisons) and carcinogens (cancer-causing agents) as cigarette smoke. Some of the toxins and irritants in cigar smoke include:

Carbon monoxide
Nicotine
Hydrogen cyanide
Ammonia
Volatile aldehydes (such as formaldehyde)
Cigar smoke includes the following agents that cause cancer (carcinogens):

Benzene
Aromatic amines (especially carcinogens such as 2-naphthylamine and 4-aminobiphenyl)
Vinyl chloride
Ethylene oxide
Arsenic
Chromium
Cadmium
Nitrosamines
Polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons
Like all tobacco, cigars can also contain radioactive elements, which may contribute further to the cancer risk.

There are some differences between cigar and cigarette smoke, though. These differences are due to the aging and fermenting of cigar tobacco and the fact that the cigar wrapper is not as porous as cigarette paper.

Cigar tobacco has a high concentration of nitrogen compounds (nitrates and nitrites). When the fermented cigar tobacco is smoked, these compounds give off several tobacco-specific nitrosamines (TSNAs), some of the most potent cancer-causing substances known. Also, because the cigar wrapper is less porous, the tobacco doesn’t burn as completely. The result is a higher concentration of nitrogen oxides, ammonia, carbon monoxide, and tar — all very harmful substances.
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:04 AM   #6
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We had a similar experience a few years ago. Our neighbor came over and asked politely if we'd be finished our cigars soon as he wanted to come back out of his coach to enjoy the smell of the night air in the woods... We weren't impressed by his cheek but we duly complied and finished up soon after.

Next morning he came over and invited us over for bacon breakfast..

While chatting at the breakfast table, he quietly explained that his wife was severely asthmatic and was badly effected by the smell of cigar & cigarette smoke. But particularly that of cigar smoke. The mere smell of it would make her feel terribly sick... If he had mentioned that the night before, I'm sure we wouldn't have said such nasty things about him

Its hard to judge people. Maybe your neighbour had a good reason to ask you guys to stop also?

I don't smoke anymore. Its only when you don't smoke that you realise just how "pungent" and overwhelming the smell of cigar smoke can be. Way more than that of the smell of cigarettes.... I'm sure a lot of people like to go camping to get closer to nature and immerse themselves in the sensory side of it. The smell of cigar smoke drifting through the campsite doesn't fit in that scene...

I say good on you and your friends for being considerate to your neighbor...
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:14 AM   #7
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smoke away and enjoy!

FAR better than a bunch of drunken sports jocks hollering at every replay they see on their outside TV

or the DP sitting there running because the owner thinks he must warm it up before it can be moved

or the obnoxious kids next door

or the barking dog next door

etc etc
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:27 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack1234 View Post
Well.....since you asked. I think if you and your friends are going to enjoy smoking....you are probably going to need to understand that Societies' patience to the burning of a carcinogenic substance is getting less and less tolerant. Is this fair? Well please read this quote from the American Cancer Society concerning second hand smoke and ask yourself if you'd object to someone burning a life threatening (cancer) substance next to you, your wife & your children?...... I don't think you are going to find the moral "high ground" on this one....certainly not from me......but good luck!

What about secondhand cigar smoke?
Because cigars contain more tobacco than cigarettes, and because they often burn for much longer, they give off greater amounts of secondhand smoke. This is also known as environmental tobacco smoke (ETS) or passive smoke. Secondhand smoke includes both the smoke from the end of the burning cigar and the smoke exhaled by the smoker.

All tobacco smoke, whether from cigarettes, pipes, or cigars, is known to cause cancer. In general, secondhand smoke from cigars contains many of the same toxins (poisons) and carcinogens (cancer-causing agents) as cigarette smoke. Some of the toxins and irritants in cigar smoke include:

Carbon monoxide
Nicotine
Hydrogen cyanide
Ammonia
Volatile aldehydes (such as formaldehyde)
Cigar smoke includes the following agents that cause cancer (carcinogens):

Benzene
Aromatic amines (especially carcinogens such as 2-naphthylamine and 4-aminobiphenyl)
Vinyl chloride
Ethylene oxide
Arsenic
Chromium
Cadmium
Nitrosamines
Polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons
Like all tobacco, cigars can also contain radioactive elements, which may contribute further to the cancer risk.

There are some differences between cigar and cigarette smoke, though. These differences are due to the aging and fermenting of cigar tobacco and the fact that the cigar wrapper is not as porous as cigarette paper.

Cigar tobacco has a high concentration of nitrogen compounds (nitrates and nitrites). When the fermented cigar tobacco is smoked, these compounds give off several tobacco-specific nitrosamines (TSNAs), some of the most potent cancer-causing substances known. Also, because the cigar wrapper is less porous, the tobacco doesn’t burn as completely. The result is a higher concentration of nitrogen oxides, ammonia, carbon monoxide, and tar — all very harmful substances.
I appreciate the chemical analysis, but if I follow your line of reasoning, I guess the smoke coming off the campfire, BBQ, or smoker is also carcinogenic, and therefore I will have to put them out too! Unfortunately, a lot of activities that people enjoy while camping aren't always the healthiest decisions.
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:31 AM   #9
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I can understand why he would not want you guys using a product that kills 100,000 Americans a year, just outside of his coach.
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Old 07-07-2013, 01:45 AM   #10
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Cbones - now I'm curious. Are we talking about a 60 foot long, maybe 60 foot wide slab of concrete positioned slightly left of center for hookups on that side - located 2 miles off the highway or a pristine mountain view in the woods and your smoke was billowing across the valley to next camper. We all "camp" in all kinds of places. But lots of times it's like being in a concrete city parking lot and not the romantic great outdoors. And yet these places get 10 stars and thumps up like they were actually something they are not - everyones personal slice of heaven. We gotta go along to get along and allow a little leeway from our idea of perfection, even if it means closing a window for an hour. OR only having one when we'd like two. No matter where you are a little compromise goes a long way.

I'm not seeking a moral high ground, and good, bad or indifferent, it's still legal to smoke a cigar. I may have seen a no cigar rule before - don't recall cause I rarely carry them any more. In fact I have a nice humidor that will be going on eBay soon. So it's really not my cause. As they once said in the military and may well today - smoke em if ya got em boys.
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Old 07-07-2013, 02:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbones

I appreciate the chemical analysis, but if I follow your line of reasoning, I guess the smoke coming off the campfire, BBQ, or smoker is also carcinogenic, and therefore I will have to put them out too! Unfortunately, a lot of activities that people enjoy while camping aren't always the healthiest decisions.
Hey no problem ....you're welcome on the chemical analysis. In fact, I can provide pages & pages of great reading on the horrors and grizzly consequences of smoking tobacco. Emphysema, heart & respiratory disease, lung/throat/mouth cancer, Crohns, stroke - the list is endless and really great bedtime reading. Sorry can't provide quite the same extensive reading list for the consequences of campfires, BBQ's or smoked salmon.

Like I said ....if you're gunna smoke....you're gunna haffta deal with the fact that you'll be treated as a social outcast in today's society....but good luck non the less ....& on the up-side as you grow older it's highly unlikely you'll be able to hear all the anti-smoking whining over the purr of your CPAP machine.
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Old 07-07-2013, 02:55 AM   #12
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It bothers me how a smoker (cigars or cigarets) seem to excuse away the impact that they are directly inflicting on everyone around them. Even to say that they have to put up with other bad campers, so therefore others should just put up with their bad habits and choke on it. Anyone that continues to smoke, with all the facts proving how bad it is for them, let alone everyone around them, are just selfish enough to think that their rights to do so is more important then the rights of all the rest of us.... You should not have to put up with the outrageous antics of your neighbor when it impact you camping, and you have the right to go talk to them about your concern. They have the right to come and ask for some consideration from you too. None of us should be so inconsiderate of our fellow campers as to think that all that matters is what we want to do, regardless of how it impacts those around us.
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Old 07-07-2013, 04:21 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tedgard01 View Post
outrageous antics
Really?

You consider your neighbor smoking a cigar to be outrageous antics?
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Old 07-07-2013, 06:27 AM   #14
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My response and actions would have been in direct proportion to how I was asked to extinguish my cigar/cigarette. The vast majority of the time, people will ask nicely. And being the extremely sensitive and kind person I am, I'll easily comply, often with an apology. However, if I am approached in a less than courteous manner, I'll respond differently.

Example, years ago I was smoking a cigarette at the end of a long, rocky jetty. There were no boats and the closest person was more than 50 feet away. Another person came to the end, looked at the river and then abruptly turned to me and said, "That's offensive. Put it out immediately".
My response was that it was a long jetty, you saw me smoking before you got here and smokers have rights too, to which he responded "Your rights end at the tip of my nose”. Being the considerate and entirely non-combative person I am, I said, with a smile, “Then move your [moderator edit] nose”. Predictably, he had to get the last word as he turned in a huff and walked back down the jetty.

Folks, if you’re bothered by someone else’s actions in a CG, you’ve only two options available to you. Either approach the ‘offender’ nicely and ask for cooperation, or move your house.

If I were the guy settled near you while you smoked, I would have either walked over, said hello and lit a cigarette..................or shut my windows.

As for being a 'social outcast in today's society', I’m good with that.
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