Civil Asset Forfeiture

[Mike and Cha]

UFO Pilot, HaHa, "I give up" that was going to be my next line. I can assure you if you are a Law Abiding Citizen, and I'm sure you are, you have nothing to worry about any of your assets ever being seized( except what they take out in taxes but that's a whole other debate). Take care and who knows maybe we'll meet on the road someday and have a beer( or whatever you drink) together. Take care and have safe and happy travels.

[OldToolmaker]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/10/us...-to-seize.html

It's real, and its out of control. Reasonable people won't believe Civil Forfeiture exists until it happens to them.

Many many years ago at the antique auto show in Bennington, VT, a good conservative old money resident chortled with glee at the "antique" car seized by the Bennington PD under CF. Until I explained to him the absence of due process. He checked and was appalled.

[Old Car Nut]

Originally Posted by OldToolmaker

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/10/us...-to-seize.html

It's real, and its out of control. Reasonable people won't believe Civil Forfeiture exists until it happens to them.

Many many years ago at the antique auto show in Bennington, VT, a good conservative old money resident chortled with glee at the "antique" car seized by the Bennington PD under CF. Until I explained to him the absence of due process. He checked and was appalled.

After reading that and watching the videos I have to say I'm pretty fired up. The glee they have over getting booty from people really fries me.

[maypo050770]

Mad as hell right? Me too! It's insane.

[easywind]

There are different types of checkpoints where the police will take your possessions. That's how they fund themselves.
I am a Vietnam veteran and once believed the USA was lily white. I lost about half the guys I grew up with in Vietnam and in 1967 I protested the war in NY city's Central park. I was in half uniform, blouse, jeans combat boots etc. The police beat and clubbed the guys in uniform and arrested those not in uniform as it would not look good on the pages of the New York Times to see pictures of veterans protesting the war being arrested.
At that point I realized the United States is a criminal enterprise and one has no rights. Only privileges that can be rescinded at any time.
[moderator edit]

[Old Car Nut]

"...when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government..." ~ Declaration of Independence

[sknight]

Originally Posted by Mike and Cha

Because your local LE has more info than you and the media on the guy they stopped and seized the property from, again more stories without all the info. Have they stopped you and seized your assets, probably not because you are not transporting money or dope, and don't associate with criminals who do so. The traffickers never put the money and dope together anyways. I have yet to hear from an honest law abiding Citizen on IRV2, who was out enjoying the great outdoors with his/her non drug bought MH, getting it or any of their assets seized.

Ok, since you're asking, here's your story.

Roughly 17 years ago I was working a job where my shift ended at 11:30. I'm cruising home in my paid for car, I get off the highway and the local county PD is running a "License and firearms checkpoint."

My ex works for a PD near Atlanta, so being the good PD husband I was, I said "Yes sir, I have a weapon in my console." thinking I was going to show my ID and cruise home. I pull to the side and exit the car.

A corporal stomps up to me, demanding my weapon and asked if I had anything else of interest such as money or drugs.

So, I tell him where to find the wepon. The rant about it starts as he goes ahead and searches the interior of my car. He demands my ID, which I hand him with my Georgia weapons permit.

Fast forward, it's just more berating me, my weapon comes back clear, my car isn't stolen, I'm not wanted, I've asked for his superior and he refused. Finally, he gets in my face and demands to know why I carry a weapon in his county. My much younger self said something about a lack of confidence in his ability to protect me. This had drug on 30 minutes and had gotten ollllldddddddd.

Now he tells me that he's going to confiscate my weapon and my car because only drug dealers drive Camaros and carry guns. My firearm ended up in an evidence bag, he called the wrecker, all the while refusing a higher ranking officer.

Finally a lieutenant gets within earshot and I called him over.

Lieutenant asks corporal what crime I committed, why my property was confiscated and what grounds he had for that while I wasn't being arrested. Corporal stated some horse manure about suspicion being adequate for confiscation and later investigation. "We can't apply that in this situation."

Lieutenant handed me my weapon, ID and keys, apologized and asked for me to leave. I filed a complaint with the dept but it quietly went away. But had that lieutenant not gotten within earshot who knows what would have happened.

As I was leaving I noticed another youngish couple with an officer counting a stack of bills, I don't know what became of that.

This while my wife worked for a neighboring PD, and guess what? Similar practice happened there too. Just a couple of years ago the county PD that stopped me became the subject of a huge whistleblower investigation into such practices.

I don't know who you're taking up for, but I promise, it happens. Are the majority of departments and LEOs on our side? Yes. But you can't deny that there's dirty ones too and they exploit all they can. 238 years ago our forefathers wrote out a system of rules and that was what seemed to be a far simpler time, today we need them more than ever.

[MPH]

I have 2 words for you: Traveler's Checks.

[wa8yxm]

I would like to think the folks who enforce the law in Michigan are above this kind of thing,, I know there are several communities in Flordia who run their government this way. But I'd like to think Michigan LEO's are better,, and in fact, I know many who are (Michigan State Police).

But Oakland County Assistant prosecutor conducted a seminar which was held, as I recall in Wayne County, some years back on how to seize cash and property EVEN WHEN NO CRIMINAL ACTIVITY IS SUSPECTED.

Now, the victim can go to court, and if they win they get MOST of it back, but they still have to pay court costs, attorney fees, and the government keeps a percentage even if they loose.

Is this right? Well... I think this is going too far and I might add so did a good number of voters in S.E. Michigan (Resulted in a new line of work for the attorney who ran the show). but.. I know for a fact it is happening, likely even as I type.

There is an old false saying: "Money is the root of all evil"

The correct saying is: "The love of money is the root of all Evil"

and even that's wrong, Satan is the root of all evil, but the love of money is one of his best tools.

[spritz]

Originally Posted by maypo050770

I whole hardheartedly disagree. I have provided 5 links below, all very reputable sources. Each one of these stories happened. I'll be the first to admit the news can be one sided but I think it is safe to say this is not urban legend. Even Canada has put out a travel bulletin saying not to travel with large amounts of cash in the US. The last link is a PDF documenting Civil Asset Forfeiture abuse and is on the legislatures web site.
Another civil asset forfeiture outrage - The Washington Post
Stopping the abuse of civil forfeiture - The Washington Post
Taken - The New Yorker
Iowa Civil Asset Forfeiture Case Gets National Attention | whotv.com

http://www.leg.state.nv.us/Session/7...D/SJUD305I.pdf

Thanks for the Video
Tim

[Mike and Cha]

Sknight, your car didn't get seized per asset forfeiture laws, or at all for that matter. So you didn't provide the "story" I was asking for.You just dealt with a Cop who was out of control and probably shouldn't be one anyway. That was 17 years ago, things have changed for the better in LE during the last 17 years. Trust me in my career I had the opportunity to weed out guys like the one you dealt with and I did. The good cops don't like them out there anymore than the public does.


I'm not sticking up for anyone, I just know more than the average guy of how it works and who is being targeted. All I am doing is trying to keep the honest law abiding MH owner from worrying about his MH getting seized due to asset forfeiture laws, by providing true and accurate info, not just hearsay.

[sknight]

I'm glad you got guys like him off the street, but what hung me up was the "We can't apply that in this situation." That tells me there was something in place.

I really hope I'm wrong, that all the reports that are coming out are embellished, but the very fact that they can, even if I hang out with the wrong crowd but myself do nothing wrong, is very, very concerning.

[maypo050770]

I keep hearing dirty cops. I guess police are certainly part of the problem but government is the bigger problem I think. How could a law like this even exist?

[doc]

Come on people. The majority of RVers are old geezers who have retired or young people with families. How many of you have ever been even stopped by law enforcement when driving or towing your RV? If so, did they ask to search it?
Sure there is some bad guys in the business. I was 27 years on the job and I have seen one 'bad cop' in all the officers that came and left the department.
If Chicken Little comes up and starts telling you the sky is falling, you better look out and see. Seizures happen every day but the large majority is from two things> an ongoing criminal investigation or some dummy with a bag of cocaine, crack, meth or other drug in the car with a large pile of cash with him.
We seldom, if ever, seized auto assets with money owed on them. Too much trouble to go through the courts.
I hear horror stories of someone going someplace with a bundle of cash to buy an RV, a car, a motorcycle of such and getting stopped and the cash seized. I have never read a actual case of this happening. What you don't hear is the entire story of what was going on that brought the officer's attention to this guy to begin with.
Don't get paranoid or let some Chicken Little type get you all bothered because he has some personal axe to grind