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Old 02-25-2015, 10:58 AM   #71
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Wow!
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Old 02-25-2015, 11:38 AM   #72
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Oh wow I have read stories about this and seen them on the web. I totally did not think about that this past May when we took our cross country month long road trip. We took a ton of cash with us.


It's disheartening to read these articles about innocent people just living life.


Anyway I will talk with the other half when we plan this years trips.
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Old 02-25-2015, 03:21 PM   #73
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This is why you don't answer any questions other than your name along with giving them your license and registration. If they ask where you're going either say nothing or just traveling for pleasure. And NEVER EVER consent to a search or let them into any part of your RV. If they want to search they have to legally detain you.

As far as money, if you do carry a lot then make sure you have the receipt from your bank to cover all you have on board. If it cam from the bank they are very unlikely to try and take it since you have proof where it came from.
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Old 02-26-2015, 02:12 PM   #74
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Just really darn sad that we even have to discuss this.
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Old 02-27-2015, 11:06 AM   #75
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This is why you don't answer any questions other than your name along with giving them your license and registration. If they ask where you're going either say nothing or just traveling for pleasure. And NEVER EVER consent to a search or let them into any part of your RV. If they want to search they have to legally detain you.

As far as money, if you do carry a lot then make sure you have the receipt from your bank to cover all you have on board. If it cam from the bank they are very unlikely to try and take it since you have proof where it came from.
I have heard that one should not even roll down the window but put your drivers licence, registration and proof of insurance in a clear plastic bag, state you will not say anything, you want your lawyer and am I free to go.
If you open our window they will smell marijuana.
I am fairly sure most of us grew up and the local cop was a friend or at least a nice guy, times have changed.
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Old 02-27-2015, 01:48 PM   #76
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I have heard that one should not even roll down the window but put your drivers licence, registration and proof of insurance in a clear plastic bag, state you will not say anything, you want your lawyer and am I free to go.
If you open our window they will smell marijuana.
I am fairly sure most of us grew up and the local cop was a friend or at least a nice guy, times have changed.
Wow, some of you talk like you are living in some third world country where you never know what the Police or Military is going to do. I guess if you know of a safer country to live in with the quality of life we have here in the USA, and the rights afforded to us, maybe you should move there. There has been a lot of hyped up comments against Police on this thread which is unfortunate, because without them we would only have the crooks to protect us. Is that what you really want, the great majority of the Cops I know are working their tails off just to provide us with a safe community/country to live in. Have all of you worked in a career where you didn't occasionally get a bad employee that didn't represent your career in the best way, and then they got weeded out. If not you have blinders on. People are human, not computers or perfect.

Most of what has been said has been blown out of proportion, third hand info, and most likely not the whole story. It must be nice to tell only one side and get people worried that their rights are being violated on a daily basis, and they should live in fear. How on earth are they going to smell marijuana coming from your MH if you are not smoking it. This is 2015, the police have neither the time or desire to mess with good law abiding citizens. Like said before most of us are just older retired couples, out enjoying our MH's traveling the USA, and have absolutely nothing to worry about when dealing with the Police, most likely if you do have an encounter it will be because you really need their help.

Geeze, and I promised myself I would not post on this thread again as it was just getting insane and meaningless. To all the Law abiding RV'ers out there, just go out and have fun, and none of this should be a worry you even need to consider.
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Old 02-27-2015, 02:02 PM   #77
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I think that what you are misunderstanding is this is about bad law and not necessarily bad leos
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Old 02-27-2015, 02:25 PM   #78
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I think that what you are misunderstanding is this is about bad law and not necessarily bad leos
No, I know the law, worked it for over thirty years, and it is directed at drug traffickers and other crimes that tear at the moral fabric of our country and society. I have both read the law, and enacted it in both State and Federal, criminal and civil courts. And never once did I run across a Law abiding Citizen fighting to get back their MH that was seized for no reason, bad cop, or anything that violated their rights. Most of the time it was some person(s) with hundreds of thousands of dollars(who we had been following for a period of time) who's only response to the money was "I don't know where it came from, you can have it". They never come back to contest the seizure, that my friend is a clue we are targeting the right people. Most LE today are men/women with College degrees and are not stupid or trying to do things that will make a good law bad.

I would bet half the people commenting on the asset forfeiture laws have never even read them and are basing their beliefs on what they read here, or what the have read on-line from dissenters(much like the measles vaccinations where people listen on line poster rather than actual doctors re the benefits of immunization). Have you ever actually read the law and know what goes into it. If you have grandkids what kind of community do you want them to grow up in and raise a family? I'm am all for living a free life with all the rights we have been afforded so don't think I don't respect that, but just like what happened when we were attacked by terrorist in 9/11, things change to protect those lives and liberty's we enjoy in the USA.
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Old 02-28-2015, 12:20 AM   #79
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I saw an expose' on TV that was an hour long. They went through many cases where much of the police department's funding came from Civil Asset Forfeiture. In one well documented case there was a motel owner with no mortgage. They simply sent him a certified letter stating that his motel had been seized. He sued to get it back but it cost him hundreds of thousands of dollars. Interestingly his attorney was able to depose the police and determine the logic for the asset forfeiture. The under oath they were able to find out the real reason for his motel being targeted? He had no mortgage and his motel was worth over $2 million dollars! The department simply went through the property listings and looked for properties that had any drug arrests (he had called the police on some customers staying at his motel in the past and had them arrested) and looked for properties that had low or now mortgages. In this program, there were many other cases such as a small business owner who lost all his money. He almost lost his business because it was for payroll and operating capital. It took him tens of thousands of dollars and nearly a year to get his money back. He had to borrow money (I think against his personal house to stay afloat.) Again they can depose the LEOs. The theme is the same, they can seize the cash, vehicles, houses, business anything and force the owner to expend resources they don't have to try to get their assets back. One poster commented that most people don't fight for their assets. No kidding, you have no right to an attorney, no jury nothing. You have to bring an action to attempt to get your asset back. You will not get any interest, loss of use, or anything else back after you spend a year of fighting. Most people don't have the time or money. Add to that the asset may well have been damaged or destroyed while in storage so what are you really getting back? There were many cases like that on the show where a vehicle or other relatively small asset was seized. It simply isn't worth the expense to try to get it back. Under Civil Asset Forfeiture not only do you have to prove you were not involved in a crime you have to prove that your asset wasn't either. It is not you but the asset that is the "defendant" in a Civil Asset Forfeiture proceeding. Civil Asset Forfeiture used to be used very sparingly usually for very legitimate cases. However the law was changed to allow local LEOs to "share" in any profit gained from forfeitures in their jurisdiction this is called "equitable sharing". After that law went into effect Civil Asset Forfeiture ballooned to a massive level.


Think about this would you spend $50,000 - $100,000 and over a year trying to get your $200,000 motorhome back? Keep in mind you still need to insure it etc. Would you have that much money lying around to pay attorneys, and call witnesses, court reporters? The reason it is being done is the perverse profit incentive of "Equitable Sharing".


I believe that this whole thing is bad law. We should not be incentivizing LEOs, cities and counties as well as DEA, FBI etc. to police for profit. Any money seized under Civil Asset Forfeiture should be done with full constitutional protections and the seizing jurisdiction should never be allowed to keep any of it. In addition, people who have their assets seized should have all expenses incurred to recover their asset reimbursed by the seizing authority including, legal fees, court fees, recorder fees etc. if they are successfully able to get their assets back. Furthermore they should also be reimbursed all losses incurred as a result of the seizure if they are able to get a court to order their assets returned. This is similar to if I hit you with my car I have to legally "put you back to where you were" 1 second prior to the accident. If an asset forfeiture causes the loss of a business then the seizing agency should have to pay whatever necessary to recover the loss.


If we make these changes to the law, we provide real protections against malicious profit motive seizures and still can go after the lawbreakers.
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Old 02-28-2015, 07:47 AM   #80
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Mike & Charlotte, you are preaching to the choir here, but you are never going to win this discussion when people have the ever truthful, accurate and unbiased Internet and TV as their sole base for information. I'm just so glad I live in a far different country from the one they live in.
I live in a country where the police go into schools and teach our children how to carefully use the Internet and the dangers of falling into step with those piers who want them to send or say things that could hurt them down the road.
I live in a country where the police attend parents meetings to teach them on what to look for in their youngsters on line behavior that could hurt them.
I live in a country where the police are the first to put their lives on the line when they come to a accident scene to help me.
I live in a country where the police will respond to any call I make, no matter how insignificant it may seem to them, because they know how important it is to me.
I live in a country where abuse of power is always held in check by the courts, other police and citizens of this fine country. We have the power to vote out those in power and even run for office ourselves if we truly want to make a change for the good.
I live in a country where I am not afraid of the police, and hopefully when they have a chance to interact with me aren't afraid of me.

Yes I live in a very different country than the one some live in, and I like mine much better.
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Old 02-28-2015, 10:24 AM   #81
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Well here is some good news and another example of abuse in the article by the IRS:
Congressional Coalition Seeks to Stem Abuse of Civil Asset Forfeiture Laws | CNS News
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Old 02-28-2015, 11:13 AM   #82
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Thanks Bigd9, you and I live in the same country, and that's the one I love. I have done all those things you mention that a Police Officer does in my career and am very proud that I was able to help those who were in need. I just can't believe some of the responses so far and you are right, it's a debate that can never be won because so many people believe everything they read on the internet and rely on half the story and very little truth in rushing to judgment. Oh well, at least we can enjoy the country we live in, and respect those that keep it safe for us. Take care, thanks Mike.
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Old 02-28-2015, 11:23 AM   #83
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I love this Country as much as anyone but I believe in due process. If that makes me a bad guy, so be it. Every profession has bad apples, some of you seem to believe that law enforcement is the exception.
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Old 02-28-2015, 11:44 AM   #84
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I love this Country as much as anyone but I believe in due process. If that makes me a bad guy, so be it. Every profession has bad apples, some of you seem to believe that law enforcement is the exception.
No there is Due Process, you just never see or hear about it as you are not involved in the case and the media has no right to the info, so the outcome is never reported, just the half story. They aren't targeting innocent people, and I still haven't heard from the phantom law abiding citizen who had their MH seized for no reason( because there isn't one).

Having been in LE for over 30 years and retiring at a high level, I do not see LE as the "exception". I have had the OPPORTUNITY to weed out those "bad Cops" you speak of and have received overwhelming support from the good men/women in LE for doing so. Todays LE is very transparent and they protect your rights more than you do(yes that's right). You are not a "bad guy" just misinformed. So with the vast knowledge you have learned on the internet what/how would you investigate and deter the drug dealers and criminals who are deteriorating the safety and moral fabric of our country. I can tell you that myself along with thousands of other professional LE that I have worked with have NEVER arrested an innocent person, or seized property that wasn't involved in a crime or the fruits of criminal enterprise.

But so be it, unless you have the answer and want to put your life on the line to protect those you don't even know, you will never know the real truth, just what you learn from unverified sources. I bet you wouldn't run your own business that way. Good luck to all in your travels, stay safe and enjoy the hobby we all partake in, and most of all don't worry about this as there are too many more likely things that can happen while enjoying the travels of our great Country.
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