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Old 01-01-2012, 10:04 PM   #15
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Don't think the end of the corn subsidy is the end of ethanol in fuels. The truth is that ethanol production from grains is too costly and the yields are too low.

All the research and pilot plant work today is in ethanol production from biomass (wood chips, annual plants such as sawgrass, waste woods, etc.). There are several realitively large pilot plant and production systems either in the construction or planning stage right now!

Ethanol production from biomass is 2 to 5 times per ton greater than from grains, and the production cost are equal to or less expensive per gallon then fossil fuels.

How do I know this? The company I work for is working with all the major players in developing the processes and equipment to produce ethanol from biomass.
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:40 PM   #16
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Don't know if you want to go there, after all there are rules for the forum, but the kids are going to inherit the mess (we) NOT ME, made of things so I would give them a little slack. Your concern seems to be that you have enough oil to transport you to your grave. Theirs is that the oil your burning doesn't cook the planet they want to live on.
Hi Capn,
I was green long before the save a tree folks brought us plastic bags and long before the save the water folks brought us leaf blowers. I have conserved long before most folks realized it was an issue. And yes, I have plenty of fuel to get me to my grave many times over but thanks for your concern. Maybe we can carpool.
More to the point, I find it sad that our offspring will never have what we have had with such things as the cost of electricity so high that the elderly in our cities can no longer afford to run their air conditioners.
However I do thank you for your concern and appreciate your understanding of these issues. Lets hope that the people that inherit the earth are as wise and understand the balance of life and nature.
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:23 AM   #17
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Don't think the end of the corn subsidy is the end of ethanol in fuels. The truth is that ethanol production from grains is too costly and the yields are too low.

All the research and pilot plant work today is in ethanol production from biomass (wood chips, annual plants such as sawgrass, waste woods, etc.). There are several realitively large pilot plant and production systems either in the construction or planning stage right now!

Ethanol production from biomass is 2 to 5 times per ton greater than from grains, and the production cost are equal to or less expensive per gallon then fossil fuels.

How do I know this? The company I work for is working with all the major players in developing the processes and equipment to produce ethanol from biomass.
This is the way it should be - we should use ethanol because it makes sense economically and technically, not because its use is being subsidized by taxpayers. Using an inefficient process to convert food into fuel does little except raise the cost of food. Making ethanol from biomass at higher yields is the way to go if it works. I wish your company and those they are working with much success.
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:28 AM   #18
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EPA currently mandates the use of ethanol as an oxygenate in gasoline (up to 10% ethanol, or E10) in non-attainment areas - I know, because I live in one! Proposed EPA regulations could raise the percentage of ethanol required to 15% or even 20%.

The absence or presence of an ethanol subsidy won't have any impact on our fuels in non-attainment areas (other than price ) unless and until EPA regulations change.


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Old 01-02-2012, 08:43 AM   #19
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I had a uncle that made this stuff,but they did not waste in by putting it in a gas tank.They not only did not give him a gov paycheck ,but they give him a place with room and board for about 18 mo.Don't waste corn this junk can be made out of other stuff that don;t taste as good.
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Old 01-02-2012, 09:01 AM   #20
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I had a uncle that made this stuff,but they did not waste in by putting it in a gas tank.They not only did not give him a gov paycheck ,but they give him a place with room and board for about 18 mo.Don't waste corn this junk can be made out of other stuff that don;t taste as good.
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Brings to mind a famous bumper sticker slogan for the ethanol fuel industry:

Drink the best, and drive the rest!
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Old 01-02-2012, 09:27 AM   #21
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Brings to mind a famous bumper sticker slogan for the ethanol fuel industry:

Drink the best, and drive the rest!
Not a slogan ,rules to live by,but be very careful this stuff can burn holes in pistons.
(The liver is evil --it must be punished)
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Old 01-02-2012, 09:29 AM   #22
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..,but be very careful this stuff can burn holes in pistons.
Bill
Only if not tuned properly. It requires a higher fuel to air ratio and if not adjusted it will run lean on gas settings. Newer computer fuel injected cars will compensate. *edit Nevermind Bill.. I get it now, I'm a little slow on the uptake.*

They've about outlawed 100 octane for race gas by raising the price (much like freon) to over $8/gal. I switched my race car to E85, at 110 octane it's great stuff for forced induction cars.

Pretty soon we'll be back to bicycles but then there will be something wrong with the grease on the chain or the tire marks left behind.
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:26 PM   #23
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Rusty has it right.

The EPA mandate for a certain number of gallons per year of ethanol to be used in gasoline makes the subsidy moot. Regardless of the production cost from corn or biomass, the ethanol price will rise to a market clearing level so that the mandated volume will be available. Tariffs are such that importing will be competitive and imports of ethanol will act as an upper lid on the sales price and may cause some ethanol production plants to shut down. But, inevitably, the price of ethanol and ultimately the price of gasoline and every other thing made from corn will go up. The public will pay.. either at the pump, at the grocery check-out, or at the IRS.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:31 AM   #24
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Great news. Maybe this will bring the price of beef and other food down that was affected when the feds forced us to pay farmers to grow the corn.
Don't count on prices coming down. A lot of those farmers own those ethanol plants. Need I say more?
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:54 AM   #25
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News report last night said they anticipated a 4 cents per gallon price increase nationwide because of this.

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Old 01-05-2012, 11:12 AM   #26
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Every taxpayer has already been paying for "cheap" corn ethanol via the subsidies, you just couldn't get an accounting of it.

The additional 4 cents/gal just means now you have an inkling of how "cheap" EPA ethanol mandates really are.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:33 PM   #27
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Don't bad mouth the farmers with you mouth full of food it's bad manners. IN other words don't bite the hand that feeds you !
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Old 01-09-2012, 11:22 PM   #28
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Another excuse to raise the price of gas. How many excuses are we going to tolerate before we all burn our fuses and say, enough is enough? Put in the corn and raise the price, take out the corn and raise the price.
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