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Old 05-22-2010, 06:36 PM   #29
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Just curious

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Originally Posted by Bill Adams View Post
I suppose that using an e-cigarette to stop smoking might have some kind of redeeming value (but still questionable). However, that is NOT how or why the e-cigarette folks are marketing this product.


You get to "become an instant modern smoker"! Are you kidding me? If you don't smoke, you will after you become "modern". If you are quitting smoking, I would recommend damn near anything else (Nicorette would be my first choice) as you need to not only break the physical addiction but the physiological addiction as well which this (IMHO) piece of crap does not address.
Just curious, where did you find this quote? I didn't come across it when I was surfing, but I would like to know the source. Thanks. kkd
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:43 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Adams View Post
I suppose that using an e-cigarette to stop smoking might have some kind of redeeming value (but still questionable). However, that is NOT how or why the e-cigarette folks are marketing this product.


You get to "become an instant modern smoker"! Are you kidding me? If you don't smoke, you will after you become "modern". If you are quitting smoking, I would recommend damn near anything else (Nicorette would be my first choice) as you need to not only break the physical addiction but the physiological addiction as well which this (IMHO) piece of crap does not address.
Bill your response does not surprise me. I assume you are a non smoker. The reason they are not marketing this product as a "quit smoking device" is because that would immediately throw them into very expensive FDA regulation which would in effect put them out of business... Just what the government and BIG TOBACCO wants. Big Tobacco for obvious reasons and the governemtn does not want any of us to quit smoking because they are addicted to the taxes cigs generate. And where do you get off calling this a "piece of crap"? I'm aware that you know your stuff when it comes to TV satellite dishes, but unless you have been holding out on us you do not own a clinical testing lab. There has NOT BEEN ONE study anywhere that shows one harmful result from the contents of or use of E Cigarettes... NOT ONE. I have used this for a week and I feel great... I have tried the patch and gum... those did nothing to make me want to stop smoking. Only a smoker can know what this addiction is like... there is chemical and psychological addiction with cigarettes. All you get here is nicotine and not the other 4000 chemical you get with cigarettes... 65 of which are carcinogens. Further there is nothing harmful to anyone about the bi product... No second hand smoke, no fire to burn down a house, no smelly clothes, breath, and no cigarette butts laying around the street and washing down to the rivers and streams.... How in gods name can you sit atop your satellite perch and condemn a product that has the potential of reducing tobacco related deaths in America from 400,000 to 10,000 per year in 20 years? What qualifies you? Please?
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Old 05-22-2010, 07:40 PM   #31
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Bill your response does not surprise me. I assume you are a non smoker. The reason they are not marketing this product as a "quit smoking device" is because that would immediately throw them into very expensive FDA regulation which would in effect put them out of business... Just what the government and BIG TOBACCO wants. Big Tobacco for obvious reasons and the governemtn does not want any of us to quit smoking because they are addicted to the taxes cigs generate. And where do you get off calling this a "piece of crap"? I'm aware that you know your stuff when it comes to TV satellite dishes, but unless you have been holding out on us you do not own a clinical testing lab. There has NOT BEEN ONE study anywhere that shows one harmful result from the contents of or use of E Cigarettes... NOT ONE. I have used this for a week and I feel great... I have tried the patch and gum... those did nothing to make me want to stop smoking. Only a smoker can know what this addiction is like... there is chemical and psychological addiction with cigarettes. All you get here is nicotine and not the other 4000 chemical you get with cigarettes... 65 of which are carcinogens. Further there is nothing harmful to anyone about the bi product... No second hand smoke, no fire to burn down a house, no smelly clothes, breath, and no cigarette butts laying around the street and washing down to the rivers and streams.... How in gods name can you sit atop your satellite perch and condemn a product that has the potential of reducing tobacco related deaths in America from 400,000 to 10,000 per year in 20 years? What qualifies you? Please?
Sorry, I forgot how GOOD nicotine is! Please forgive my ignorance.
Have you ever stopped at one of those mall kiosk's? Did they sell you on the importance of using their product to stop smoking?
Did the ad I quote stress the need to stop smoking or was it the idea that becoming an "modern instant smoker" become the selling point. Big tobacco wants us to smoke, of course. I see the e-cigarette as a gateway to tobacco and "big tobacco" would be quite happy with that idea. As Forrest Gump said "stupid is as stupid does". If you don't smoke why in the world would you want to pick up an e-cigarette unless you were considering becoming a smoker (it is considered stylish)? If it really was a quit smoking aide, why would they advertise it any other way.
Please don't confuse the fact that I have opinions about everything (as do you) with any other posts that I might make. I often get in trouble for making posts that are not politically correct and I really could care less. Take it for what it's worth or block me so you don't have to listen to my drivel in the future.
By the way, I am currently a non-smoker, but the more accurate description would be that I am a former smoker. Since you seem to be convinced that I am a non-smoker, who am I to argue with you. Assume? Bad assumption.
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Old 05-22-2010, 07:42 PM   #32
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Just curious, where did you find this quote? I didn't come across it when I was surfing, but I would like to know the source. Thanks. kkd
E Cigarettes, Electronic Cigarettes, Electric Cigs
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Old 05-22-2010, 07:46 PM   #33
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Bill I think you totally miss the point of any of this and you just want to preach and feel superior. Just my humble opinion.

And I seriously doubt that your "politically incorrect" opinions get you in trouble, it probably is more your condescending tone and holier than thou approach to your posts that people object to.
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Old 05-22-2010, 08:02 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by tedward1555 View Post
Bill I think you totally miss the point of any of this and you just want to preach and feel superior. Just my humble opinion.

And I seriously doubt that your "politically incorrect" opinions get you in trouble, it probably is more your condescending tone and holier than thou approach to your posts that people object to.
Right on! It is so easy to criticize others. Joe
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Old 05-22-2010, 08:46 PM   #35
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It is easy to criticize others isn't it. I didn't criticize anyone but Tedward sure didn't pull any punches. There was a quick leap comparing what I know about satellite to a comment about e-cigarettes. I guess personal attacks are OK. My opinion was an opinion based upon my smoking experience and I see this to be nothing more than a gateway "drug" and the ad I referenced appears to back up that idea. That's my opinion and while it may be an attack on the product, unless Tedward is the manufacturer, it certainly was not an attack on anyone.
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Old 05-22-2010, 08:59 PM   #36
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You know, I re-read my original post and I just don't get the deal you are making Tedward. You did see the part where I said "I suppose that using an e-cigarette to stop smoking might have some kind of redeeming value (but still questionable)." right? Since there are also no studies that prove this product to be an effective stop smoking tool, where did I go wrong? I then posted a real ad from a real website trying to sell the product you you can be come an instant smoker. Do you think I made this part up? In re-reading Tedward's post my take is that, for whatever reason, the fact that he tried the patch and the gum and it did not work for him makes the fact that these proven tools are not as good as the totally unproven e-cigarette since it is working for him.
I know folks who are trying to quit smoking can be a bit touchy and Tedward, I really am sorry that I touched some kind of a nerve but when they stop marketing it to non-smokers I will continue to believe that this is not a good product for anyone. What smokers do with this product is a completely different topic.
Despite the response I am sure is coming, as a former smoker, I really do wish you the best of luck in quitting as smoking is a terrible habit. Oh shoot, another politically incorrect opinion. I'm really going to hear it from the smoking lobby now!
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:24 PM   #37
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I think where you went wrong was calling it a "piece of cr--p" And yes I did get really mad reading that. So again I go back to your tone and approach... not what you said so much as how you said it. As a smoker for most of my adult life to have gone 8 days without a smoke is wonderful. And I have done a great deal of research in the last two weeks on these products because my Doctor suggested I try them. That does not make me an expert but I can assure you there is no credible information out there that documents any health risk to them. And there are thousands of testimonials of people who have either quit smoking all together or have switched from smoking cigarettes to vaping e cigarettes and their lung capacity and other health issues have cleared up tremendously because of it. Even if the only positive impact were to eliminate second hand smoke for family and friends of smokers it would be positive. How that can be called a piece of cr..p is beyond me.
But really not what you said as much as how you said it.
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Old 05-22-2010, 11:47 PM   #38
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... Have you ever stopped at one of those mall kiosk's? Did they sell you on the importance of using their product to stop smoking?
Actually the kiosk that we stopped at was manned by a lady who told us how using the e cig helped her cut way back on her usage. She also had dropped down to the lower nicotine liquid. she was looking forward to getting to the point of using the 0 nicotine liquid. She liked the menthol liquid. They have other flavours. I do not understand the how the e cigs are any worse than chewing up the nicotine loaded gum or patches? I know of so many people that those things did not work for them. There is more to smoking than just the nicotine anyway.

As for the folks who think you shouldn't use the e cig to stop or lower your nicotine usage... how about you cutting out something insidiously addictive and very bad for you like, oh say... SUGAR and ALL SWEETENERS both natural and artificial!

BTW, I don't smoke and never have.
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Old 05-23-2010, 06:49 AM   #39
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As a former smoker I will apologize to anyone who is using this product to stop smoking! Personally, I have not seen the product advertised as a stop smoking device and if it were used and advertised for that purpose alone I would have to take back everything I said. Maybe I should have said that I think it's pretty crappy that they advertise the unit as a gateway to smoking.
I do not find anything good about smoking. Anything! It's not stylish or hip and a company that advertises a product as a way to become a "modern smoker" leaves me completely cold. I meant no offense to those using the product, but I find the marketing to be extremely offensive. I hope that all smokers who want to quit find the thing that works for them. Try it all. Patches, gum, hypnosis, acupuncture, whatever works and good luck. The nicotine is still an issue, but one thing at a time, I suppose.
My opinion of this product remains the same as I believe that they are marketing themselves to non-smokers which the tobacco companies just have to love.
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Old 05-23-2010, 08:42 AM   #40
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... It's not stylish or hip and a company that advertises a product as a way to become a "modern smoker" leaves me completely cold... I believe that they are marketing themselves to non-smokers which the tobacco companies just have to love.
I have read the same advertisement. I do not believe that they are marketing themselves to non-smokers. At least that is not how I read the copy. Having said that, I do not see any difference between selling a low nicotine chocolate (the one David wants to try after he weans himself off of the nicotine), blueberry, coffee or vanilla flavoured vapour additive any worse than pushing those tiny personal music players (what ever they are calling them now) which will damage hearing. And I think e-cig marketing is no more dangerous than the way beer, wine and liquour is marketed... be cool, sexy, drink and party but "drink responsibly"?? Possibly less since I haven't seen e-cigs advertised on TV like beer , Captain Morgan (who is their target age group?) and Grey Goose (for the slightly more upscale alcoholics). And is it really any worse than many other things which are advertised? Lets face it. Everything is bad for you arcording to someone.

From the same website you found your information on..
Quote:
E-Cigarettes contain about 20 ingredients which are used in our food, health and beauty products. E cigarettes have about the same amount of TSNAs (tobacco specific nitrosamines) as in FDA approved Nicotine Replacement Therapy products.
E-liquid | Refill Liquid juice For Electronic Cigarettes, Pipes & Cigars where you can get the e-cig liquid in various nicotine doses from high to none

How to quit somoking by use e cigs How to quit smoking by using e-cigs
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The Nicorette Inhaler cartridge contains 10 milligrams (mg) of nicotine. When the inhaler is used continuously over twenty minutes it releases up to 40%, or 4mg, of the cartridge's total amount of nicotine. Of this delivered amount, about 50%, or 2mg, is absorbed systemically. The nicotine plasma concentrations achieved are about one third of those experienced when smoking a cigarette, and is similar to the effect of chewing one piece of 2mg Nicorette Gum hourly. The maximum plasma levels are not achieved until about 15 minutes after the 20 minutes of continuous puffing had ceased.
That sounds an awful lot like an e cig. And I knew people who would chew nicotine gum, wear a patch and still smoked.
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Old 05-23-2010, 09:17 AM   #41
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The differences between alcohol and tobacco additions are quite different in my opinion. There are drugs known to cause addition in tobacco (nicotine at a minimum) but no such drug in alcohol. I agree that alcohol may not be good for you, but studies comparing the health effects from smoking or drinking clearly make smoking a much worse health hazard. There are even some studies that show that a moderate amount of certain types of alcohol can be good for you. I don't believe that there is a single legitimate study that indicates that any amount of smoking is a good thing.
I think the e-cigarette could well be a good stop smoking aide. Certainly, anything that works to help someone quit is. I just can't see it as having any great redeeming value beyond that.
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Old 05-23-2010, 09:24 AM   #42
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I'll find the Judges ruling and post it later, but the reason they DO NOT market themselves as a smoking quit device is because that would immediately throw them under the control of the FDA. I happened to have published a Medical Device Magazine for 20 years in a former life, and trust me... when a company falls under FDA regulation, they had better have billions of dollars in the bank because the FDA will need at least that much to "test" and "certify" your product. The FDA receives most if not all it's funding from the medical device and pharmaceutical companies they regulate. These companies just can't afford that... period! That was a statement in the Judges ruling that set aside the FDA's ban on import of these products until the case goes to trial... that the FDA does not have regulatory authority over these products because a) they are not a "tobacco" product and b) they do not market themselves as a quit smoking product. As soon as that is all cleared up, I can assure you they will market themselves that way... and if you look online they have so much ammunition in the bank to prove it works in the form of testimonials. Also, it is a stated goal of the FDA and Tobacco to work on "damage mitigation" or something like that... Well if all you're getting is nicotine from these that sure mitigates damage... and yes Bill nicotine is still a problem... that's why they sell cartridges that allow you to taper off to zero nicotine. Sorry for the rambling... but I am in love with this product
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