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Old 11-20-2011, 09:36 PM   #15
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DW and I watched her union flail around like a sea lion flopping in the jaws of a killer whale when our community hospital was sold and all the employees lost their pensions.
The union was powerless to help all who had paid union dues for so many years. The board members all walked away with their pockets stuffed and nice cushy jobs with the new administration, while employees with over 20 years and near retirement got nothing. It's okay with society though, because no crime was committed.
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Old 11-20-2011, 09:49 PM   #16
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DW and I watched her union flail around like a sea lion flopping in the jaws of a killer whale when our community hospital was sold and all the employees lost their pensions.
The union was powerless to help all who had paid union dues for so many years. The board members all walked away with their pockets stuffed and nice cushy jobs with the new administration, while employees with over 20 years and near retirement got nothing. It's okay with society though, because no crime was committed.
The union didn't administer the pention?
As in hold and invest the funds?
I thought that's part of what they were for?
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Old 11-20-2011, 10:09 PM   #17
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What America needs is for large unions (Teamsters etc.) to set-up membership drives in China
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Old 11-20-2011, 10:23 PM   #18
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Slowly, the World turns. Some things are coming back to the US. If stricter import tariffs were in place, maybe things could be different.

When union started out it was a good deal for the American worker. A fair days wage for a fair days work. Several years ago a study was done, and union workers worked on the average of 4-5 hours a day out of an 8 hour days pay. I'm not making that up folks, it was published as a study.

Now, my son was hot-shot deliveries. Time is rather important in that service. One day he arrived at a refinery to deliver a 2 pound little box of something. He was delayed a little at the security gate because of some vehicle in front of him but he finally got through. He arrived at the warehouse and walked in just as the workers were sitting down for their lunch. He asked if someone could sign for the package. The apparent leader looked at his watch and said, "We are on our lunch break, come back in 30 minutes." When questioned he was told that "It's union rules." Now tell me, what cause and effect would it have had for the person to just take the pen and sign his/her name? The effect was that my son was denied his working for 30 more minutes.

I'm not a union person either. I watched my father loose his job and pension plan because of a union strike back in the late '40's. In the '50's as a teenager I "had" to join a union though I was in school and working part time. Some of my wages went to the union. I "had" to attend a union meeting that was about a possible strike. I was 16. It was all hype and you could tell who the union leaders were spread around the group, shouting encouragement to strike. It was all put-on.

Sorry, not meaning to hijack. I wish we could buy American. I wish the greed that is inherent in the "Board" rooms would go away? Maybe some day the World will turn our way.
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Old 11-20-2011, 10:48 PM   #19
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Just a very short response [moderator edit]. Until we go back to the basics in this Country nothing going to change....can't say anymore but just read into this simple statement.
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Old 11-20-2011, 10:52 PM   #20
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Yes, I'm a Union Carpenter. What has that to do with the matters at hand? I wasn't laying the blame for the countries woes at the feet of Steve Jobs, he's just a symptom of the larger problem. Big business looks for short term profits rather than realize that if we're all broke we can't buy their products. If it wasn't for Unions we would still be living in company towns, in a company house, buying our goods from the company store. That's history not a fairy tail.
I always get quite a laugh when I hear people complaining about “Big Business” or “The Company” and how money hungry “THEY” are. Most of the Union members that I worked with had stock in the company they worked for and received dividends from those stocks. Big Business is generally publicly owned and traded through the stock market. People buy stock in the Company that is going to give them the largest returns on their investment. If profits go down, dividends go down and the people investing move to another company showing higher profit levels and therefore paying higher dividends.
Stay with me!!!
This all being understood it is the “People” that demand these companies do everything it takes to make huge profits, then these same people whine when it appears someone else’s stock is doing well and their lot in life is in a downward spiral.
Still with me!!!!
Remember as we point our finger at someone where are three fingers pointing back at us. Our greed started this and allows it to remain in place. If we had only stopped demanding more and more for less and less, if we had forfeit something to our neighbor that allowed them to do business cheaper, we would be reaping the benefits today.
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Old 11-21-2011, 07:52 AM   #21
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I don't buy anything made in Vietnam no matter how
bad I need it.

A couple of my service buddies never came back from
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:34 AM   #22
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Quote:
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Slowly, the World turns. Some things are coming back to the US. If stricter import tariffs were in place, maybe things could be different.

When union started out it was a good deal for the American worker. A fair days wage for a fair days work. Several years ago a study was done, and union workers worked on the average of 4-5 hours a day out of an 8 hour days pay. I'm not making that up folks, it was published as a study.

Now, my son was hot-shot deliveries. Time is rather important in that service. One day he arrived at a refinery to deliver a 2 pound little box of something. He was delayed a little at the security gate because of some vehicle in front of him but he finally got through. He arrived at the warehouse and walked in just as the workers were sitting down for their lunch. He asked if someone could sign for the package. The apparent leader looked at his watch and said, "We are on our lunch break, come back in 30 minutes." When questioned he was told that "It's union rules." Now tell me, what cause and effect would it have had for the person to just take the pen and sign his/her name? The effect was that my son was denied his working for 30 more minutes.

I'm not a union person either. I watched my father loose his job and pension plan because of a union strike back in the late '40's. In the '50's as a teenager I "had" to join a union though I was in school and working part time. Some of my wages went to the union. I "had" to attend a union meeting that was about a possible strike. I was 16. It was all hype and you could tell who the union leaders were spread around the group, shouting encouragement to strike. It was all put-on.

Sorry, not meaning to hijack. I wish we could buy American. I wish the greed that is inherent in the "Board" rooms would go away? Maybe some day the World will turn our way.
Wayne, we agree, not all unions are good right now. My Union experience is mostly relating to the building trades, there it is common practice if a delivery comes a lunch or break time, you unload them and then take your full lunch time. Right now my 2 youngest sons work at a casino, the SEIU is trying to unionize them. I advised my sons not to join. Now why would you ask would someone with 45 years as a Union man and member of the executive board of my local do that? Because the union can't offer them more than they have, they are well paid have benefits 401k ect. etc.. So the union organizer came to the house and wanted to speak with them. I explained my history and told him I was advising them not to join. In the discussion that followed he tryed to tell me things that the union could do for them that I knew were false, after I told him in some interesting language that he was full of it, he agreed that I was right, after a hand shake he left. My point is not every instance needs a union to represent them, some do, you have to make your own choices, then live with the results.
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Old 11-21-2011, 10:15 AM   #23
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What America needs is for large unions (Teamsters etc.) to set-up membership drives in China
In China they put Union organizers in prison, kind of puts a crimp on things like workers rights.
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Old 11-21-2011, 12:00 PM   #24
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I agree that it is a choice everyone has to make. I just don't like the pressure that they bring to "make" you join.

In China - you have no rights.
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:18 PM   #25
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We live in a gloval economy today. Corporations anmd companies are spread world wide. Things are made nearly anywhere, form raw materials sold who knows where, and then brought here because WE are the only people who can afford to buy the stuff.

And WE can and we do. Even welfare queens have cars, tv's, computers, and cel phones. Fuull time american worokers have multiple cars and computers, and a 3000 square foot house in the suburbs.

Even the poorest American is richer than the average worker in most of the rest of the world.

Eventually, it will all come around. We'll have to give a little no doubt, and the rest of the world will gain some. But eventually, we won't be the only market.
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:18 PM   #26
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I agree that it is a choice everyone has to make. I just don't like the pressure that they bring to "make" you join.

In China - you have no rights.
Wayne, I was upset that they came to my home to speak with them, that was over the line, I didn't like the lies he told. To be honest my sons had already made up their minds not to sign the card to ask for a vote, this after being raised in the home of a Union activist, they used their common sense and free will. The other people at the casino may not have the experience or guidance to make a wise choice.
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:28 PM   #27
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We live in a gloval economy today. Corporations anmd companies are spread world wide. Things are made nearly anywhere, form raw materials sold who knows where, and then brought here because WE are the only people who can afford to buy the stuff.

And WE can and we do. Even welfare queens have cars, tv's, computers, and cel phones. Fuull time american worokers have multiple cars and computers, and a 3000 square foot house in the suburbs.

Even the poorest American is richer than the average worker in most of the rest of the world.

Eventually, it will all come around. We'll have to give a little no doubt, and the rest of the world will gain some. But eventually, we won't be the only market.
Jim, this isn't a race to the bottom. There are other markets they will buy things from third world manufacturers not American. There will always be folks in such dire straights they will work for less, live 5 to a room with no running water or sewage. Why should Americans strive to lower our standards so we can compete with that? We have had a vibrant middle class for the last 60 years, should we take a step back?
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Old 11-21-2011, 01:35 PM   #28
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The irony of the article is that one of the reasons I went over to Apple from being a lifelong Microsoft user is Apple's use of American Call Centers. When I have a problem with something made by Apple I get someone who actually speaks English as their first language. They are here in the US and they pay taxes here. Whenever I've had a problem with Microsoft I get someone on the other side of the world that butchers the English language like Steve Martin in the Pink Panther movies.

As to the evils of corporate greed....well, that's what drives up the value of your pension plan. Before you tell me how much it dropped this year, tell me how much you put into it and I'll be willing to bet that what you put into your plan is a lot less than where it is right now. Any business is entered into with profit as a motive or otherwise it would not survive. Is that greed? Yep, but it is greed that we can all profit from by investing in those companies that perform the best.

Unions were meant to even out the playing field and they did in fact create a blue collar middle class. When I look at the Great Lakes Cities of Buffalo, Cleveland, and Detroit I see cities that were created by the Unions and their high paying wages. I also see cities that were destroyed by that same Union mentality of more, more, more. Other companies had to pay competitive wages to get workers to work for them rather than in the auto and steel plants. Eventually those other companies had to move to lower wage areas to stay competitive. Then the auto and steel industries started to die and those cities died with them.

As both Corporations and Unions have grown in power, so has their political influence and the massive amounts of cash they each spend on political campaigns. This has resulted in an environment that has been the backbone of the gridlock we have in Washington today. Neither side will give and the country suffers,
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