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Old 11-26-2011, 10:27 AM   #57
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wyntaxman - the people you employ would not be employed if there was no demand for the products they produce. No demand and you would not be in business. There must be a demand for whatever you produce or you would be laying them off. I can't believe that you would hire just because you might be lonely.

I don't know it gets mighty cold in western NY in the winter, might have to keep that many working just for the body heat LOL
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Old 11-26-2011, 10:58 AM   #58
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My point is that those of us who have our own businesses are the ones willing to put our necks on the line. As a CPA firm we service small businesses and individuals. Yes, there is a demand for our services, but there is also huge competition within our business. We have to compete with the mega companies like H & R Block and Liberty Tax that can hire people part time that have no formal education in what we do and who do not have the same professional requirements. On the employee side we have to compete with the huge national CPA firms that can pay a kid $60,000 right out of college because their big corporate clients can afford to pay $100 an hour for a kid that doesn't have any real world experience.

I could get lonely and cold in Western NY without my fellow employees, but we still have a few people wander into the office to get out of the cold, so I'm only lonely for just a little while!
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:09 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by wnytaxman View Post
My point is that those of us who have our own businesses are the ones willing to put our necks on the line. As a CPA firm we service small businesses and individuals. Yes, there is a demand for our services, but there is also huge competition within our business. We have to compete with the mega companies like H & R Block and Liberty Tax that can hire people part time that have no formal education in what we do and who do not have the same professional requirements. On the employee side we have to compete with the huge national CPA firms that can pay a kid $60,000 right out of college because their big corporate clients can afford to pay $100 an hour for a kid that doesn't have any real world experience.

I could get lonely and cold in Western NY without my fellow employees, but we still have a few people wander into the office to get out of the cold, so I'm only lonely for just a little while!
I employ 4 people, and know many people in unions (younger brother as well). If I (or anyone else with a small business similar to mine) conducted business the way the union and their employers do, I would have been out before I started.
Unions in pure form are excellent, but once big money gets involved it then opens the doors for politics. And with politics comes waste and inefficiency and you need to look no further than our current government state and federal for proof.
Truth is, both sides of the aisle need a kick in the rear and we need to start WORKING again. Whether it be Dem or Repub, worker or employer...
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:42 PM   #60
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I own a small retail store, 12 employees...approx. 2 mil. in sales... I have only worked retail... I am very creative ( not SJ' caliber) but I have survived and grown my business.. I think the OP's point is when is being a SOB and being successful, right... My answer is, I would rather be OK financially, then screw over ever one I meet to have a BAZILLION dollars when I die. JMHO..... D
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:49 PM   #61
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Sorry to say, you all missed the point. These plants over sea can make anytime they want. They do not have ENVIRONMENTIST or LAWYERS. Anything you make or do here, the environmentist and lawyers tie you up for years. After you start the feds are on you for everything, over seas they don't. Do you thing they care if you have the right bathroom or clean air? China sends toys with high levels of lead, try that here and see what happens. Off the box
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Old 11-26-2011, 09:12 PM   #62
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Sorry to say, you all missed the point. These plants over sea can make anytime they want. They do not have ENVIRONMENTIST or LAWYERS. Anything you make or do here, the environmentist and lawyers tie you up for years. After you start the feds are on you for everything, over seas they don't. Do you thing they care if you have the right bathroom or clean air? China sends toys with high levels of lead, try that here and see what happens. Off the box
Glen, I'm sorry but I miss your point, should we start letting business destroy the environment, or should China stop. Who do you think is doing it right?
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Old 11-28-2011, 01:30 PM   #63
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I find this all very interesting. Thanks to everyone for posting, it really makes you think. I believe the truth to be a real combination of most of the thinks brought up here. My own theory would add the WalMart started much of this trend with Sam waltons marketing and GREED. They have close millions of small businesses, moved millions of jobs overseas and lowered margins and thus job opportunities, money available for benefits and pensions etc for thousands of domestic companies. All of that is just my opinion and YES, I am guilty of shopping at Walmart more often that I would like to, mainly because all of my old stand by stores are long gone. Soon when you enter walmart the shelves will only contain those silly while label save more walmart brands as they expand to all house brands and squeeze big name brands off of their shelves. Again, just my opinion, I AM a Steve Jobs fan and NOT a Sam Walton fan, now go ahead and blast me if you will but it is JUST my opinion and I am sticking to it. Thanks for the lively discussion, it is very interesting.
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Old 11-28-2011, 02:19 PM   #64
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It is true that many small businesses have gone out of business due to a Walmart coming to town. It is also true that many big and small businesses went out of business when a major interstate hiway was built and all the traffic bypassed them. Things change.

It is also my opinion that Walmart has done more to raise the standard of living of more Americans than any other entity (Gov't program, Unions etc). Walmart has created millions of jobs for lower to midlle income people, hundereds of thousands of jobs in the contruction industry, trucking, shippping, and so. Look at just about every Walmart and how many other small businesses co-located with them or are nearby.

Walmarts size has lead to lower prices for just about every product they sell. These lower prices have allowed lower income customers to buy products they would not otherwise have been able to afford.

Over the past three decades America became the high cost producer of common everyday products especially products that can be mass produced through automation or very unskilled labor. Wage and benefit demands by both union and non-union workers (also known as GREED) along with competition for skilled workers helped in this cost escalation. Then you throw in gov't regs and taxes and voila outsourcing becomes the norm. I don't see this trend changing until the asian countries significantly raise their cost of production.

It's a big problem for my kids and worries me greatly. They will not have it as good as I did.

Just my opinion of course

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Old 11-28-2011, 03:08 PM   #65
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When did a celebration of profit and achieving the "American Dream" become "greed?" What is the line between a fair profit and greed? Why are our sports/movie/TV celebrities not chastized for their 'greed?' How many of you started a business to provide jobs as your primary motivation?? If not, what was/were/are the reason(s)??

We need an environment where businesses thrive and people can get jobs. In that environment a business will compete for workers and treat them as assets and as valuable. The Gov't has stuck its nose in so far that, when combined with unions, many American businesses have to go overseas to some degree to remain competitive. Unions had a VERY important role in the past. Now, IMHO, many are anti-competitive and serve themselves just as any demonized business does. For those who criticize the corp. executive compensation (I think it should be SOLEY performance based with NO severance packages) --look at what union bosses get paid--why are they not called 'greedy?'

I had my own business for 14 years. Now I work for someone else. I make more, work less, and fewer headaches. When I had my own place I employed 6-14 people. For the SBA loan to start it I had to put my personal home up as collateral. I took the risk, got the education (paid for it ourselves, no Gov't assistance) and put my own assets up for the loan. WHY should I not profit from that?? Why do my employees 'deserve' anything? If they are loyal and hardworking they 'earn' perks.

One HUGE exmple of what is wrong with America is visible on the commute to and from work. How many turn signals do you see when it should be used. How many times are you cut off? How often do you see cars at dawn/dusk/in the fog with no lights on?? Like smoking, NOONE can claim they do not know driving and texting do not mix--yet I see it happen every day. How many more examples of stupid, dangerous behaviors do you see? We are each selfish and shortsighted. Yet when something happens it is someone else's fault. Why else do many of us have forward-facing video cameras on our RVs to protect us?

WE the people deserve to be in the 'greedy' category just like the demonized exectives. The only difference is that they did 'greedy' correctly and profited from it.
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:42 PM   #66
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Where is the moderator and the new rules. Why hasn't this thread been deleted, I just scanned the 5 pages and don't think I ever saw "RV" anywhere.
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:05 PM   #67
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Where is the moderator and the new rules. Why hasn't this thread been deleted, I just scanned the 5 pages and don't think I ever saw "RV" anywhere.

Perhaps it is because all of these issues have a very heavy effect on all of us as RVers. No one has been flaming anyone else and we have all been having a very interesting discussion. Not all of us have agreed on everything said, but it has been extremely civil and informative. I would like to commend the moderators for NOT deleting this thread. Let the opinions and civil behavior continue.
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:28 PM   #68
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The shift of jobs overseas is not a new thing. In 1982, I was working for a Bendix subsidiary ( I am an engineer). At that time Bendix used programmers in India to write the code for the project we were developing. I was making about $3500/month. The engineers in India were making 2000 Rupees a month, which was a good wage. The exchange rate was 10 Rupees to the dollar. I killed myself to finish my degree in 4 years, while my friends in business courses cruised by on 2/3 the workload. Most of my business friends in 1982 were making a lot more money than I was, and working a lot fewer hours.
I talk to engineering students a lot in my present job. Most of them do not use English as their primary language. The USA is slipping backwards because of the way engineers are treated. Once an engineer reaches 45, he had better be in a solid job because no company wants to hire an "old" engineer. By the time an engineer here reaches 55, companies are looking for ways to push them out the door.
I'm retiring in the Spring, and I've enjoyed my career, but it has a difficult process. A lot of studying to keep myself current. A lot of long work weeks with little or no overtime. As current as I am, my replacement has been hired (he is 23) and the company is doing all it can to get me to leave now. And no, I have not been offered a buyout - the economy is too bad.
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:42 PM   #69
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Where is the moderator and the new rules. Why hasn't this thread been deleted, I just scanned the 5 pages and don't think I ever saw "RV" anywhere.
Agreed.

Funny how we have lost the right to discuss the second amendment of the United States Constitution but folks are free to discuss other non-RV related topics like how unions are great and the companies that employ their members are all greedy behemoths.

I have to disagree with the moderators on this one.

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Old 11-28-2011, 05:29 PM   #70
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Where is the moderator and the new rules. Why hasn't this thread been deleted, I just scanned the 5 pages and don't think I ever saw "RV" anywhere.
From the main index page for Forums (please note the heavy empashis on "NON-RV")
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Just Conversation (21 Viewing)
This is a forum for friendly, professional, informal exchange of "NON-RV" related subjects.
Note: Discussions about politics and religion are not allowed at iRV2.
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Agreed.

Funny how we have lost the right to discuss the second amendment of the United States Constitution but folks are free to discuss other non-RV related topics like how unions are great and the companies that employ their members are all greedy behemoths.

I have to disagree with the moderators on this one.

Don
Basically the only right you lost was to engage in posts that almost invariably cause turmoil and hard feelings among members.
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