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Old 02-27-2012, 01:57 PM   #71
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Regular gas just went up to $3.85/gal here in central Indiana. Diesel is at $3.85.
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Old 02-27-2012, 02:05 PM   #72
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How can you tell the price of diesel in Indiana? Pumps say $3.85 and then you go to pay and they charge you $4.25. I ain't never stopping in Indiana again. I've never figured it out.
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:34 PM   #73
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Demand Off

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Originally Posted by Davdeb1 View Post
That shows supply, not demand. Demand is growing exponentially. The difference in the world economy is bigger than one might suspect. We need LOTS MORE supply. If there were no environmental concerns, we would have all the oil we needed, for a while anyway.
Global demand is actually a little lower, probably due to recession triggered several years ago.

In the US, a reduced demand could be due to multiple factors.

American Petroleum Institute(API) and Wikipedia provided this data, please let me know if you find something contrary. The fall in supplies in this graph almost exactly match the demand, cited by numerous statistical sources.
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:45 PM   #74
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Yes I Saw It

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Or you could get oil from Canada. There are larger deposits in Canada then Saudi Arabia. US actually gets more oil from Canada then Saudi Arabia. Then theres the Keystone XL pipeline. Jobs and oil for North America. Anybody else seeing a pattern of stupidity here?
I DID: A [Moderator Edit] channel said 20,000 jobs would be lost here. That was on the heels of a string of reports, each citing higher and higher numbers wherein the channel was quoting itself with each incremental rise. Some credentialed news outlets picked up on the numbers initially, then retreated when the facts became known.

The oil industry said up to 119,000 jobs here.

Cornell University did a non-partisan study and found the real number is between 2,500 and 4,650 here.

World news organizations have sided with Cornell, in general terms, citing dozens of independent sources.

Thanks, Fred. You are absolutely correct, it seems.
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:02 PM   #75
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Oil companies that have increased their exports overseas and are depleting the U.S. supply. It's creating an artificially higher price for American consumers. When consumer demand is weak, in the United States, it's a very attractive option to export and get those healthier profit margins.

The improving economy and more employment means more Americans will have the means the confidence to buy more and pay more!

It's simple Greed Economics!
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:27 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVNeophytes2 View Post
I DID: A [Moderator Edit] channel said 20,000 jobs would be lost here. That was on the heels of a string of reports, each citing higher and higher numbers wherein the channel was quoting itself with each incremental rise. Some credentialed news outlets picked up on the numbers initially, then retreated when the facts became known.

The oil industry said up to 119,000 jobs here.

Cornell University did a non-partisan study and found the real number is between 2,500 and 4,650 here.

World news organizations have sided with Cornell, in general terms, citing dozens of independent sources.

Thanks, Fred. You are absolutely correct, it seems.

On the KXL creating jobs, please read the conclusion reached by the study on the last two pages of the Cornell University report.

Also, I have read in numerous other articles on this subject, that the oil that is to be transported thru the KXL from Canada does not stay in the USA, but rather is to be refined and shipped abroad from gulf coast refineries.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:15 PM   #77
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Indiana ADDS A road tax to diesel IF you are NOT commercial (they pay on the IFTA national agreement quarterly). Indiana is one of the very few states to take this approach and I agree, all non commercial sources should boycott buying any fuel in Indiana. It just flat costs more than you are told and more than neighboring states. It APPEARS to be a rip off of non commercial uses of diesel fuel with a high tax. I feel sorry for folks who live in Indiana and do not have a choice. I will try to NEVER buy fuel in Indiana. just my experience and opinion.
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Old 02-27-2012, 09:32 PM   #78
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Found an interesting article in USA Today stating that Canada has already begun building it's half of the KXL pipeline to the tune of $2.3 billion on the hopes? US will build its half later.

Just a matter of time before it is completed, hope it helps the economy.
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:24 PM   #79
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Its true, the southern end of the pipeline is gonna be built, I guess, anticipating that in short order the Northern route will be built as well. You know the more of anything that you produce the cheaper the product becomes. And if you produce it locally its again likely to be cheaper. The bigger view is that this is oil from a friendly strategic partner who isnt gonna threaten/bark and turn the taps off at whim. Take care of things at home first.
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:39 PM   #80
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Quote:
It's simple Greed Economics!
Agreed....nothing but!
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:40 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred1609
Its true, the southern end of the pipeline is gonna be built, I guess, anticipating that in short order the Northern route will be built as well. You know the more of anything that you produce the cheaper the product becomes. And if you produce it locally its again likely to be cheaper. The bigger view is that this is oil from a friendly strategic partner who isnt gonna threaten/bark and turn the taps off at whim. Take care of things at home first.
These are the types of articles I've been seeing. They state that not only will we not get any of this oil, it will increase our cost. Where is the benefit in that to us Americans?

TransCanada KXL Pipeline is a pipe dream
Published: Feb 9, 2012



The Keystone XL pipeline will not contribute to energy independence, significant job growth or other economic benefits. It's likely to raise gasoline prices in the Midwest. Consider the following points taken from a study by Cornell University Global Labor Institute:

Keystone XL is an export pipeline. Much of the tar sands oil will be refined in Port Arthur, Texas (a free-trade zone — no U.S. tax revenue), where the refinery is half-owned by Saudi Aramco, the state-owned oil company of Saudi Arabia. A good portion of the oil delivered by the KXL would end up being finally consumed beyond the territorial United States.

U.S. jobs claims are bogus. TransCanada's own financial statements for KXL show only $3 billion to $4 billion in the U.S. portion, not $7 billion. No more than 2,500 to 4,650 temporary direct construction jobs, for the entire U.S., for two years, per TransCanada's own data. Only about 11 percent of the workforce will be hired locally; for Phase I work in South Dakota, only 282 of a workforce of 2,580 were hired locally, for mostly temporary, low-paying jobs. A jobs breakdown indicates that KXL indicates 41 to 113 temporary jobs in Oklahoma.

Total direct and indirect U.S. jobs created will not approach the 119,000 being claimed. For example, the 36-inch steel pipe, the largest single materials input for KXL, will come from India and South Korea.

Bob Derr, Yukon
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Old 02-28-2012, 03:47 PM   #82
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What many people don't seem to understand is that just because oil is produced domestically doesn't mean it will be sold domestically. It's not a domestic supply/demand dynamic at play. It's global. American oil does not belong to America, nor is it necessarily sold to Americans, or used by Americans. American oil belongs to whoever sucks it out of the ground, and and they get to sell it on the global market to the highest bidder. They benefit directly from OPEC's market manipulation, and so are defacto OPEC members, in my view.

Under the current system, producing more domestic oil will not decrease the cost of oil, nor will it influence the price at the pump, because producing more oil here will prompt those abroad to decrease their production a like amount. We cannot produce enough oil to overcome this. And if we could, we would run out long before them. Then we would be in a real pickle.

The system is broken, and until it's fixed, we can not drill ourselves back to $2/gallon gas. The pipeline will bring needed work for a short time, and that's good. When it's done, the jobs will dissappear and it'll just be a way to ship North American oil to China faster.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:29 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clifftall View Post
These are the types of articles I've been seeing. They state that not only will we not get any of this oil, it will increase our cost. Where is the benefit in that to us Americans?

TransCanada KXL Pipeline is a pipe dream
Published: Feb 9, 2012



The Keystone XL pipeline will not contribute to energy independence, significant job growth or other economic benefits. It's likely to raise gasoline prices in the Midwest. Consider the following points taken from a study by Cornell University Global Labor Institute:

Keystone XL is an export pipeline. Much of the tar sands oil will be refined in Port Arthur, Texas (a free-trade zone — no U.S. tax revenue), where the refinery is half-owned by Saudi Aramco, the state-owned oil company of Saudi Arabia. A good portion of the oil delivered by the KXL would end up being finally consumed beyond the territorial United States.

U.S. jobs claims are bogus. TransCanada's own financial statements for KXL show only $3 billion to $4 billion in the U.S. portion, not $7 billion. No more than 2,500 to 4,650 temporary direct construction jobs, for the entire U.S., for two years, per TransCanada's own data. Only about 11 percent of the workforce will be hired locally; for Phase I work in South Dakota, only 282 of a workforce of 2,580 were hired locally, for mostly temporary, low-paying jobs. A jobs breakdown indicates that KXL indicates 41 to 113 temporary jobs in Oklahoma.

Total direct and indirect U.S. jobs created will not approach the 119,000 being claimed. For example, the 36-inch steel pipe, the largest single materials input for KXL, will come from India and South Korea.

Bob Derr, Yukon
. There are no "tar sands". Enviromentalist love too call the oil sands the tar sands, i guess its thier attempt to vilify the oil. Anyways this oil isnt ear marked for any one particular market. If the keystone pipeline wasnt going ahead the gateway pipeline was gonna be built and that would have shipped oil (not tar) to China from the West Coast. There are construction jobs and maintanence jobs (how many I have no idea, but JOBS). Anyone can sit back and criticize, which is a lot easier than actually building something. I'd personally rather see the "oil" head South to the refinerys. It has to start somewhere doesn't it?
"An independent study conducted by the Perryman Group highlights the significant ongoing benefit to the U.S. economy of a more stable, consistent and reliable supply of oil. When completed, the Keystone Pipeline System is expected to provide five per cent of current U.S. petroleum-consumption needs and represent nine per cent of U.S. petroleum imports. Once permitted and completed, the Keystone Gulf Coast Expansion project will supply roughly half the amount of oil the U.S. currently imports from the Middle East or Venezuela".
"The benefits of Keystone are not limited to the states where it would be located. From pipe manufactured in Arkansas, pump motors made in Ohio and transformers built in Pennsylvania, workers in almost every state in the U.S. would benefit from the project and the ongoing development of Canada's oil sands"
All of the above info comes from the TransCanada web page. The pipes are being made in Arkansas themotors made in Ohio, etc, etc. That all translates into JOBS. Good paying JOBS for families
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:11 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Ramblin View Post
The system is broken, and until it's fixed, we can not drill ourselves back to $2/gallon gas. The pipeline will bring needed work for a short time, and that's good. When it's done, the jobs will dissappear and it'll just be a way to ship North American oil to China faster.

Fix it Ramblin, dern nabbit, by golly!
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