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Old 02-29-2012, 11:33 AM   #99
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Well if you think some private individual "owns" the land, you are mis-informed. Yes, many wells are on privately owned land, but the biggest reserves are in the gulf, and oceans. Governments own these or are in control of these until, some lobbyist who works for some oil company persuades some legislator to make it possible to get a lease from the government. If the government wanted, they could do like China and Russia and Venezuela, and control these wells by revoking every lease. How much do you think a gallon of gasoline is, in those countries? Corporations are out of control, and controlling many governments around the world with the promise of jobs for citizens. This is the greatest country in the world, but if you want cheap gas, you are going to have to give up some freedoms.
Bingo. Dead on. You're right. This is exactly what it will take to affect price at the pump. Government will have to seize control and ownership of the domestic oil reserves (or some portion of them) and create a state-run fuel economy here that is seperate from the corrupted world market, like China, Venezuela, and Russia do.
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:49 AM   #100
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OPEC can not control their members now. Most of them need the oil income to prevent revolution. Increasing our production would drastically and reduce thepl price and increase national secuity.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:24 PM   #101
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We can not seize the oil or companies. This is stil America. Federal permitting on and offshore is way way down.This is politics and global warming fears. Now Iran is threatening to close the waterways and the price is way up. If we had our own oil it would be less of a problem. With shale oil our reserves are massive. Over 100 years. Natural gas is larger. We do not export oil. We convert imported oil to gasoline and export the excess. Gives us jobs and does not affect gas prices.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:30 PM   #102
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Sure we have plenty of reserves. Do you really think the big oil companies want to exploit them and flood the market with over supply?

Gas and diesel production is tightly controlled.
There has been only 149 oil refineries in operation in the US since 1976! That's over 35 years of growth in the US without expanding our ability to produce more fuel.
All they have to do is close one refinery down for maintenance to drive up prices. No amount of drilling is going to change that.

This is not a political issue, only a fact of doing business in the USA.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:00 PM   #103
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Sure we have plenty of reserves. Do you really think the big oil companies want to exploit them and flood the market with over supply?

Gas and diesel production is tightly controlled.
There has been only 149 oil refineries in operation in the US since 1976! That's over 35 years of growth in the US without expanding our ability to produce more fuel.
All they have to do is close one refinery down for maintenance to drive up prices. No amount of drilling is going to change that.

This is not a political issue, only a fact of doing business in the USA.
That pretty much sums it up as I see it. We had a wake-up call in 1973 and we're still asleep. If something could have been done ,I gotta believe we would have done it. It's obvious to me that this is not an easy fix as some have posted. We went to the moon, surely there must be some way to do this, but both parties have chosen not to for the last 39 years and not just from the last 3 , and so we'll continue to debate it. Life is good.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:19 PM   #104
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Sure we have plenty of reserves. Do you really think the big oil companies want to exploit them and flood the market with over supply?
[...]
This is not a political issue, only a fact of doing business in the USA.
Exactly. This is the USA. Our government can not seize oil from private companies to create a domestic market, though that is what they would have to do to affect prices. No amount of increased production will affect the world market because we cannot produce enough to overcome the cartels.

OPEC produces about 30 million barrels per day, over 3x US production. We cannot produce enough oil to overcome their influence, and even if we could, the oil platform owners would have to agree to it, which they have no interest or requirement to do.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:21 PM   #105
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So you're saying nothing can be done and we should just bend over and take it in the wallet.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:47 PM   #106
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So you're saying nothing can be done and we should just bend over and take it in the wallet.
Pretty much, based on current laws and rules, that's it in a nutshell. All the other posturing (drill baby drill, speculators, lobbyists, global warming, pipeline, oil sand, etc) is all right/left wing political hooey.

As long as we are dependant on fossil fuels, we adhere to free market philosophy, cartels control the majority of the oil, and we have to buy from the world market, we're stuck. Something from this list has to change, else we get what we got.
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Old 02-29-2012, 04:30 PM   #107
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We can not seize the oil or companies. This is stil America. Federal permitting on and offshore is way way down.This is politics and global warming fears. Now Iran is threatening to close the waterways and the price is way up. If we had our own oil it would be less of a problem. With shale oil our reserves are massive. Over 100 years. Natural gas is larger. We do not export oil. We convert imported oil to gasoline and export the excess. Gives us jobs and does not affect gas prices.
Please don't make this into another political forum.
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:03 PM   #108
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So you're saying nothing can be done and we should just bend over and take it in the wallet.
Short term answer... Yes, we will all pay whatever the oil companies decide to charge for fuel and they will continue to have record profits.

Long term is up to us and the younger generation to decide.

I personally believe changing our infrastructure to handle fuel cell technology will be the answer. This would relieve our dependance on foreign oil and ever increasing world prices. Every city would have a fuel cell generation plant with local delivery of liquid hydrogen to the refueling stations.

All that is needed to produce hydrogen is electricity and water. This could be done conventionally or with solar power.

IMO it is just a matter of time before fuel costs are so high, it will become a viable option. Whoever has the foresight and capitol to invest into this technology will replace oil companies as the big dogs, but it will take some time.
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:31 PM   #109
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Wow, we are lucky enough to be parked in a beautiful sunny So Cal park close to our youngins' and I hadn't noticed how much gas had risen since we haven't been on the move . Guess I should pay more attention to current events...Nahhhhh, I enjoy this peacefulness too much and still feel like I'm so damn lucky even if I do have to travel a bit less to stay within budget. Heaven knows I could shave a little off the food budget and maybe shed a few pounds...I can generally find a silver lining to most situations
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:06 PM   #110
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While I'd love to see the Hydrogen future pan out, I believe that batteries are more likely, or at least closer. If a recall correctly, hydrolysis (producing hydrogen from water and electricity) is currently terribly inefficient - something like 20% and not sure about the efficiency of fuel cells. If those numbers are in fact correct, it means that it will take 4-5 times more electricity to power a car a given distance with hydrogen than if the electricity were used directly (battery) in that car. I believe that Li Ion batteries are well over 90% efficient over a charge/discharge cycle.

Of course, there will likely be improvements made, but hydrogen technology just has sooo much further to go.

On the other hand, it seems to me that batteries just might be closer than we think. Li Ion batteries also can take a charge much faster, especially if you skip the slower "topping off" part. Imagine if you could get an 80% recharge in a half hour or so. Taking a long trip would mean stopping every couple of hours for a half hour coffee break at the charging/refreshment station (Interstate Rest Stops currently), then a couple more hours on the road, ...

Doesn't sound too bad to me. Sure, prices have to come down but perhaps visible on the horizon. And doesn't it take something like 10 years to bring new oil production on line?
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:40 PM   #111
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While I'd love to see the Hydrogen future pan out, I believe that batteries are more likely, or at least closer.
I agree, to the point that hybrids and battery powered vehicles will be a stop gap until fuel cell technology is more widely available.

Honda would not currently be building fuel cell prototype vehicles if they believed oil is the only efficient fuel.

Batteries also take a lot of energy to be charged, and have limited range.
35 miles on a full charge for the Chevy Volt, 76 miles for the new Honda Fit EV, still a long ways to go with this technology.
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:24 PM   #112
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When it comes to EV technology, there is a guy named Shai Aggasi that has the right idea. He envisions a network of electric car service stations that you subscribe to, like a cell phone plan. You get miles like cell phone minutes. You don't own the batteries, you just use the energy in them. Cars are designed with a standardized removable battery pack. You can either plug in and recharge at home, or just drive in and get a fresh one in a couple of minutes. Seems like a good idea. Apparently he has it up and running overseas.

This is his website.
Better Place | The Global Provider of EV Networks and Services.
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