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Lindsay Richards · 04-05-2009, 11:04 AM

It is a world market the US isn't in control of it anymore. We can have an influence on it on the demand side, but that can be counter balanced by OPEC on the supply side. One way to keep prices lower is to drill for our own resouces and stop this foolishness of not building any more coal fired power plant.

MtManLee · 04-05-2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by read & learn

Time to get back on topic. The reason behind my post was just asking what we as RVers could do if this happens again. Again I don't have the anwser but maybe some one in our iRV2 family does.

To answer your question, I dont think there is a darn thing we can do. There is not one answer. We will live with it. Up down on or off we will have to deal with it as however it is.

doc · 04-05-2009, 04:48 PM

Lindsay has a point. We need to drill for our own resources, use natural gas and exploit reserves of crude off the California and Florida coasts. The problem with that is no one wants to think of oil rigs off the coast where the majority of the revenue is tourist dollars. They don't realize that without the oil, the tourists cannot travel to these attractions.
Another point is that drillers will shut down production when the price of crude does not suit them. When the price dropped to close to 40 dollars a while back, hundreds of drilling rigs pulled into storage yards and pumps at the well heads were turned off. Now that it is starting to rise again, some are starting back up.
We are sort of caught between a rock and a hard place - if the price drops too low, the lease holders and producers stop producing, if it gets too high, comsumers stop buying.
I don't think we need the government in private business any more than it already is (read Chrysler and GM) but this is a perfect excuse for another intervention by the feds into tell private business what they are doing wrong and interfere.

Lindsay Richards · 04-05-2009, 07:38 PM

A survey of Floridians (like me) back during the $4/gallon days showed well over half of the people wanted to go for off Florida oil. The real deposits are well offshore and 25 or 50 miles offshore would not be a problem. The revenues are also a great income for the state instead of taxes. Coal fired power plants have got to be built. Many people confuse pollution with global warming. They are totally different. Coal plants are not being built because of global warming, not air pollution. We are already in a hole already on electrical power. No new coal plants, no nuclear in over 30 years, the largest solar plant in CA just shut down by Senator Finstein due to environmentalist reasons, Cape Wind in Cape Cod stopped by the Kennedy’s, hydro being sued for disturbing fish migrations, geothermal is very expensive in the areas where it will work. Ethanol isn’t the answer, Huge new energy taxes like Cap and Trade ($3,100 per family/year according the CBO) Wind and solar supply less than 2% of our electricity and we are putting all of our eggs in this basket. We are in big trouble and energy including fuel for our RV are going to be way up as a method of control. I am worried about our ability to be able to enjoy our RV in years to come.

GraciesMom · 04-05-2009, 07:53 PM

Here's a chart of gas prices from 1993 until 2006. Judge for yourself about summer gas prices. Seems to me we're always gouged around vacation time . . . .

http://manyeyes.alphaworks.ibm.com/m...ory/versions/1

RedneckExpress · 04-06-2009, 06:16 AM

It appears to me that the gas prices didn't go up as much back in the late 90s during the summer as they do now. You can also tell what year the speculators got into the game, 1999 the gas prices went up and kept going up.

Wasn't till 2004 when we really started getting the Slick50 and the Rubber Glove.

doc · 04-06-2009, 09:57 AM

It might be a good move to take crude from the Futures trading market

hamguy · 04-06-2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GraciesMom

Here's a chart of gas prices from 1993 until 2006. Judge for yourself about summer gas prices. Seems to me we're always gouged around vacation time . . . .

http://manyeyes.alphaworks.ibm.com/m...ory/versions/1

Please consider reality. Summer brings a huge increase in demand for gas. To accommodate this demand, oil processors must push their refineries (remember, we have not built a new one for 25+ years) and other infrastructure to the max!

In addition, it seems every state, and indeed, some cities have requirements for different blends from season to season. It isn't as simple as it would seem on the surface and to call these increased costs to 'gouging' is wrong.

Many people seem to think that 'big oil' destroys the earth, digs up oil, leaves a big mess in its wake, runs the crude through a filter and makes huge profits from the product they so easily make.

That ain't the way it works.

BTW, as to refineries, the application to build a refinery near Elk Point, SD was approved last year. That day, over a dozen suits (mostly frivolous) were filed. It is estimated that IF they ward off these suits, it will take an additional 25 years to see a drop of oil from it.

flagypsy · 04-06-2009, 03:42 PM

That's impossible, Mr "Yes we can" runs everything now. lol

read & learn · 04-06-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamguy

Please consider reality. Summer brings a huge increase in demand for gas. To accommodate this demand, oil processors must push their refineries (remember, we have not built a new one for 25+ years) and other infrastructure to the max!

In addition, it seems every state, and indeed, some cities have requirements for different blends from season to season. It isn't as simple as it would seem on the surface and to call these increased costs to 'gouging' is wrong.

Many people seem to think that 'big oil' destroys the earth, digs up oil, leaves a big mess in its wake, runs the crude through a filter and makes huge profits from the product they so easily make.

That ain't the way it works.

BTW, as to refineries, the application to build a refinery near Elk Point, SD was approved last year. That day, over a dozen suits (mostly frivolous) were filed. It is estimated that IF they ward off these suits, it will take an additional 25 years to see a drop of oil from it.

First I am not in any way attacking the above statement, but in fact agree with it in the most part, but with a different out look.
Let's look at this statement about not building any new refinies for over 25+ years
This is a true/false statement while true we have not built any new oil refinies, we have rebuilt many and upgraded other refinies during that time after fires, hurricanes.
Now comes the big truth is when a NEW OIL refinery gets approval the law suits come. Why, if we need more fuel?
Now the false part of this statement that we are not building new refineries. We have built well over 30 ethanol {food for gas} refineries in the past 10 years with very little Legal action. Why no law suits?
Everyone keep up the anwsers and maybe, just maybe, we will really see the light at the end of the summer.

hamguy · 04-07-2009, 10:51 AM

I cannot believe you ask "when a NEW OIL refinery gets approval the law suits come. Why, if we need more fuel?" There is a huge 'green' movement that is hellbent on making this a poorer society than we currently are.

As to alcohol, it is becoming evident that it is NOT practical.

People/animals eat corn. Converting to alcohol dramatically increases food prices, here and abroad.

Nothing personal but I don't believe you have been following all the stories about this very complicated issue.

There are thousands of factors and it takes an unbiased scientific and economic mind to even begin to sort it out.

I was pro alcohol, pro alternate fuels pro eco person until I started investigating the facts. No longer!

Sure, we want alternates but consider-
This administration has banned new oil drilling.
This administration has banned nuke development.
This administration has banned MOST coal.
This administration has banned or accommodates anti-wind issues.
This administration has promoted battery vehicles but they cannot move big-rig trucks or any long distance travel. In fact the Phoenix area is 70 miles by 50 miles. You can drive 40 miles and need 8 hours to recharge. Not gonna work here.
Now, just which alternate fuel do you propose?

As to rebuilding and improving current refineries, we still are about 30% under what many say is a safe capacity.

If we had more refineries the shutdown and diminution of capacity caused by hurricanes (and the subsequent bump in price of gas that everyone yells about) we would have RESERVE.

zigzagrv · 04-07-2009, 11:58 AM

Hamguy and Lindsay, I agree with both of you completely. The current administration is in bed with the enviro-whackos and will continue to try to bring this country to its knees thru its energy policy in the name of 'saving the planet'.

On more factor that is causing the price of fuel to increase, though the demand remains the same, is the slow devaluation of the US dollar because of the uninhibited printing of money.

Lindsay Richards · 04-07-2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

It might be a good move to take crude from the Futures trading market

The price of oil is no longer decided in the US.

Bob (WA0MQE) · 04-07-2009, 05:51 PM

Everything said in the above statements make a lot of sense. However, there was no reason gasoline, other then greed, hit over $4 per gallon last summer. The price folks had to pay for gasoline contributed to the economic collapse just as much as what happened with the financial organizations. People couldn't or wouldn't pay those prices so they quit driving as much. It contributed to the Big Three losing a lot of sales on their SUV's and Pickups. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it forced the Big Three to rethink their production. But less gasoline sales also meant some other people would be put out of work as well. Sure enough this indeed happened, at least to some extent. Now, it's probably going to start all over. The Exxon's, etc. will gradually increase the gasoline price no matter what the oil price per barrel is, or how much oil is in reserve. When the gas price gets back up people will ease back on their driving and gas will become abundant again.

Makes one wonder if they'll ever learn.