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Old 03-06-2006, 08:56 AM   #1
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I decided to start another discussion in reference to the weather postings.

Vegas asked what was wrong with discussing Global Warming on a posting which was talking about weather. First, the original discussion began with just talking about the unseasonably warm weather in OK...Not what was causing it. Winter is just about over and some of us are looking forward to the type of weather which makes for great RVing. Second, to discuss Global Warming, that is very political...at least these days.

I'm not an expert on Global Warming, but I am a journalist and I am used to doing research. It may well be that we're having Global Warming because of pollution, but if one looks at the past, you can see all kinds of trends. They have cores of ice which tell the story much better. California was one of the worst polluters of our air. While we still have pollution, it has been curtailed greatly.

It seems to me that Vegas' discussion is that the glass is half empty, not half full. One statement which was made about the Arabs taking over our ports...not true...they are only taking over the loading and unloading of ships, not control of the port. Most of those unloading the ships are not Arabs. They will be the management and, I will agree, that it does open up the possibility for infiltration by undesirables...but so does our illegal immigration practices.

As for listening to phone conversations, I don't like it, but I can understand the need and that's why the Patriot Act was renewed...again.

As for the military, each year the military gets a pay raise (two of the biggest have been recent) and benefits have also been increased and opened up for the National Guard. There are a lot of people who feel that a career in the military is a dead end...it isn't! I'm not saying it's perfect, especially when the VA budget is in such a mess and they are raising the co-pay with TriCare, but I'm still glad I served. I don't agree with the Iraq issue and feel we should leave and let them deal with it now that we gave them the tools.

I will say this, I helped protect the right for Vegas to say what he wants and I'd do it again even though I wasn't in love with the military...I don't like war nor guns...I don't own any, but I will fight for the right to do so.

As for problems in this country, I think the politicians should increase their cognizance of such and spend more time working on our problems at home and not abroad.

The world may seem to be going to **** in a handbasket, but think back to our parents who said the same thing. Remember when Rock 'n Roll was an instrument of the devil?

This is a discussion, not an accusation. I abhor that you can't smoke in peace any longer. Who are those people who have the right to say I can't smoke where I want. It has NEVER been proven that second-hand smoke causes cancer so I don't need to hear that theory. I've smoked for 50 years and I don't have cancer. My mother-in-law never smoked and she died of cancer. So, we'll raise the taxes so people (mostly the poor ones) can't smoke because they can't afford to buy them when the government used to give them to the military for virtually free.

Ooops...getting on my soapbox a little fiercely there....
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Old 03-06-2006, 08:56 AM   #2
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I decided to start another discussion in reference to the weather postings.

Vegas asked what was wrong with discussing Global Warming on a posting which was talking about weather. First, the original discussion began with just talking about the unseasonably warm weather in OK...Not what was causing it. Winter is just about over and some of us are looking forward to the type of weather which makes for great RVing. Second, to discuss Global Warming, that is very political...at least these days.

I'm not an expert on Global Warming, but I am a journalist and I am used to doing research. It may well be that we're having Global Warming because of pollution, but if one looks at the past, you can see all kinds of trends. They have cores of ice which tell the story much better. California was one of the worst polluters of our air. While we still have pollution, it has been curtailed greatly.

It seems to me that Vegas' discussion is that the glass is half empty, not half full. One statement which was made about the Arabs taking over our ports...not true...they are only taking over the loading and unloading of ships, not control of the port. Most of those unloading the ships are not Arabs. They will be the management and, I will agree, that it does open up the possibility for infiltration by undesirables...but so does our illegal immigration practices.

As for listening to phone conversations, I don't like it, but I can understand the need and that's why the Patriot Act was renewed...again.

As for the military, each year the military gets a pay raise (two of the biggest have been recent) and benefits have also been increased and opened up for the National Guard. There are a lot of people who feel that a career in the military is a dead end...it isn't! I'm not saying it's perfect, especially when the VA budget is in such a mess and they are raising the co-pay with TriCare, but I'm still glad I served. I don't agree with the Iraq issue and feel we should leave and let them deal with it now that we gave them the tools.

I will say this, I helped protect the right for Vegas to say what he wants and I'd do it again even though I wasn't in love with the military...I don't like war nor guns...I don't own any, but I will fight for the right to do so.

As for problems in this country, I think the politicians should increase their cognizance of such and spend more time working on our problems at home and not abroad.

The world may seem to be going to **** in a handbasket, but think back to our parents who said the same thing. Remember when Rock 'n Roll was an instrument of the devil?

This is a discussion, not an accusation. I abhor that you can't smoke in peace any longer. Who are those people who have the right to say I can't smoke where I want. It has NEVER been proven that second-hand smoke causes cancer so I don't need to hear that theory. I've smoked for 50 years and I don't have cancer. My mother-in-law never smoked and she died of cancer. So, we'll raise the taxes so people (mostly the poor ones) can't smoke because they can't afford to buy them when the government used to give them to the military for virtually free.

Ooops...getting on my soapbox a little fiercely there....
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Old 03-06-2006, 10:15 AM   #3
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George:

I have absoutely nothing to hide, and the goverment can listen in anytime they want. Most law abiding people think giving up your freedoms ( Patriot Act ) is for a good cause, maybe, but that could be left for a different discussion. What I don't want the goverment doing is construing my right to have an opinion as being subversive, locking me up without charges and throwing the key away.......... the Parriot Act allows that.......... and without a warrent.

Vegas was right about more than one thing, and this may hit close to home.......... the American Tax Payer's dollars this adminstration has spent (wasted) overseas........... would pay for FREE HEALTH CARE for every single AMERICAN. Yet they are cutting our benifits.

Lets not be slam the Arabs, know a few good ones myself. What I would like to request of any foreign investor is a fairness of playing by the rules that would be considered fair. In the U.A.E. no foreign investor can own more than 49% of any company, and it can not be a goverment............ HUH?

Just my opinion,

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Old 03-06-2006, 10:33 AM   #4
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Who are those people who have the right to say I can't smoke where I want. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ME! I'm saying that you cannot smoke in our backyard ...and yes, it has been proven that secondhand smoke is hazardous to another ones health.

It is now illegal in our state (Washington) to smoke in all public places ...a result of our polls last fall.

You say the government used to give cigarettes to the military for virtually free? When I entered service in 1955, none were given free ...had to pay nine cents a pack. Now that might sound cheap but to compare to a $120 monthly paycheck ...that changes the story.

Rich ...smoke free since 1990
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Old 03-06-2006, 12:58 PM   #5
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My glass is always half full, even when it is in fact running on empty from those times of trouble. Believe me I have seen some of those times. It's mostly due to my faith, my hope for the future, and my love of life and those people who make it easier and yes more fun to live it.

About the "rights" thing.... I have always thought that a person's right to do _______ (fill in the blank) ends when it jeopardizes the health or welfare of another. I think there is a golden rule that says it better than I just did. It may be hard to live by in today's world but I'll keep trying.

How's that for staying out of the politics?
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Old 03-06-2006, 02:45 PM   #6
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Rich, I was in country early enough to get c-rats that had a package of three cigarettes. And at that time a carton from the PX was $1.10. If I could get over there.
I quit two years ago. I know I would have to some day and it was simply walking into Wally World one day and I looked at a carton priced at almost $50 bucks that caused me to quit.
So, I don't care if you smoke in front of me. I just now realize how bad the clothes smell and the "dragon breathe" that comes with it is over for me. Do I miss it? Yep!
Do I want everyone to smoke somewhere else? Naw.
I do resent folks telling everyone else what they can and can't do. I guess smoking is just a focal point for that.
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Old 03-06-2006, 03:13 PM   #7
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George, before you got to the smoking bit I agree with you 110%, you can put in words what I think all the time these days. As to smoking, did as teen tried them all, not for me, smoke free 54 yrs. Just ask don't blow smoke my way if we ever meet. "007"
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Old 03-06-2006, 03:45 PM   #8
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Here's some weather historical data for the Global Warming types.

Historical Data For Minnesota

Scroll down to the bottom where the year 2006 is. It's the warmest winter on record (almost )
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Old 03-06-2006, 03:48 PM   #9
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I knew I opened a can of worms with the smoking bit.

When I said virtually free, the word virtually is the key word. As Chet said, used to get them in C-rats and they were dirt cheap even at the wages paid in those good ol' days.

I absolutely agree that if you don't want me to smoke in your backyard, I won't. I've had to curtail my smoking for various reasons. But, it has NOT been proven that secondhand smoke causes anything. I may not smell really good, but the only person's health which I'm hurting is mine. Mind you, I don't say you're healthier when you smoke. I'm not a complete idiot...just half of one. I have done my research on secondhand smoke and there is no proof, scientifically or otherwise, that it causes cancer.

What I REALLY oject to is the raising of taxes to prevent people from smoking. My wife was watching TV today and there's some politician who swears it has been proven that soda pop causes obesity and because it does, he wants to raise the taxes on soda pop and put a warning on the product which states it causes obesity. Give me a break!!! Most others are in opposition to the tax because they say you can't do that with a single product....well they do it with tobacco and alcohol...

Maybe while we're at it, we should stop alcohol again...it is bad for your health...unless it's a glass of red wine...

I wish I hadn't started smoking at such an early age or at all for that matter. I have quit several times, but I've started up again for one reason or another. I smoke a whole lot less than I used to and I will stop again...for good, I hope. But, it's my body, I have health insurance and I'll smoke if I want to...within reason and not in your air if you don't like it. My mother quit several years ago and even she allows smoking in front of her which most of us don't do out of politeness.

The story that if you smoke, your kids will is pure hogwash. My wife and I both smoke and my 5 grown kids don't, and never have. It didn't interest them.

I guess what I'm kind of saying here is that if you don't want me to smoke within your space, just say so. I'm polite (my mother taught me manners) and I won't; but, don't use the excuse that I'm endangering your health. If anyone can give me the study and findings that were done which proves it, then I'm big enough to say I was wrong. But don't tell me I can't smoke in my vehicle or in my house. That's my space!

I have never done pot and have no desire to do so, but I think it's sad that we have a problem with it in today's society. It causes crime, but if it were legal, I am of the opinion that there would be a lot less problems if it were.

You know, it's amazing! All these doctors and nurses state how bad obesity is yet isn't it astonishing that so many of them are obese?

Yes, the Bush Administration has spent too much money, but don't blame me...I didn't vote for him. Personally, I think he's one of the worst Presidents this country has had. At least with RVN, we were invited. Iraq didn't invite us. Nobody did.

No matter what is done in this country, there are those who like it and those who don't like changes. But, this is the United States and it is what we were founded upon. If you don't like it, try living in Iraq for a few days...
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Old 03-06-2006, 05:10 PM   #10
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Smoking. I quit 2 years ago and I'm glad. Please don't smoke near me, it's still hard to deny every craving sometimes.

I'd have to see studies for and against before I can or would agree or disagree about there being proof or no proof on second hand smoke. However, I think the proof lands more on the side of it being harmful. But without throwing actual study results around, everything else is simply opinion. And I'm sure if anyone wanted, they could find study results. I just don't want to do that with my time.

As for privacy. The government has given itself the right to monitor our conversations. Problem is, (if this is how you look at it) our government could look quite different after thenext presidential election. Maybe you trust this administration, but how can you be sure the NEXT one, or the one after that, will be honorable with the information? Mark Twain (Clements) said "there are 3 types of lies, lies, d*** lies, and statistics. Well, put enough raw data on a disk and youc an make that data say anything you want it to, and that can be dangerous to everyone.

Maybe they aren't coming for you right now because you are law abiding. Unfortunately, when they outlaw your religion, or your hobby, or your profession, or your skin color, or whatever, suddenly it looks a lot different and you've already signed your rights away.

And don't say it can't happen. It happened in Germany (a very civilized place) in the 1930s and history is replete with examples of such like.

As for glasses being half full or half empty, I've never understood the analogy myself. It's simply a matter that 50% of the volume of the glass has air in it (it's not empty). that can be great if you want more...you have room for another 50% of volume of liquid. It could mean that you're not thirsty because you've already had a drink and that's a good thing.

I know how it's used, and I just think it's a silly analogy. Better to say, are you an optimist, a pessimist, a realist, or what? Frankly, a glass with 50% volume of some liquid and 50% volume of air is just a fact. It can be all in how you look at things.

There can usually be found some good things and some bad things about everything. A reasoned thinking person can usually see both sides, and sometimes three sides or more.

As for meteorological trends, I don't think that's political. Actually, I think it's more economic. Some people don't want facts to get in the way of their ability to make record profits at any cost. That's not political, it's greed. But then, that's a pretty fine line, after all, isn't it?

My $.02 worth (X5)

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Old 03-06-2006, 07:51 PM   #11
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Webster:
But, it has NOT been proven that secondhand smoke causes anything. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

GOOGLE "Secondhand Smoke" ...some very interesting health fact articles can be found in that listing. It is too bad that some people just do not want to believe what has been uncovered in recent years.

Rich
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Old 03-07-2006, 04:16 AM   #12
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Old 03-07-2006, 06:45 AM   #13
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Webster, yes you are correct climatic change has been occurring since the earth began. We can find evidence of that counting tree rings and in our anthropological studies around the world. However, the big difference is the speed that it the glaciers are melting and the oceans are warming. Nothing like this has ever occurred in the entire history of the earth.

I can't imagine anyone not agreeing that we do have serious air pollution problems. Acid rain from air pollution is destroying structures that have existed for hundreds of years. As you drive down into the LA basin can you really look and smell the smog and think that is good for you?

So what are the consequences? Well let's start with Katrina. The warm water in the Caribbean are giving hurricanes much greater strength than ever before in history. If you want to see the glaciers in Alaska you better hurry as they are melting!

What's the solution? I think we can all agree that replacing the internal combustion engine would be a huge step in the right direction. Look at you cellular phone. We've only had them for the last 15 years or so. They take videos, photos, play movies, games, schedule your life, surf the internet, and they even make calls to any place in the world. Yet our cars are powered by the same engine for the last 100 years.

The Manhattan project took only 3 years. Just think if we put some real effort and money behind the development of an alternative to the internal combustion engine. Let's say you are right and it doesn't effect global warming. The benefits would be huge. We would not care about the Arabs oil. We could give the world a gift that would go far beyond democracy. We would cleaner air to breath! So even if you are right and the rest of the world is wrong it's still a huge benefit. Using Bush's line the "Jury is out" just doesn't cut it. The Jury is only out because it's all about Money!

As for the Arabs, taking over our ports, the Saudi's already own much of out country. I'm sure I don't need to remind you that 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia. We responded by flying plane loads of Saudi citizens out of the US at our expense. There has never been investigation in Saudi Arabia. It's all about money. Does it make you wonder why Bush is supporting the Arab take over of our ports? It's all about money. We are giving them all of our money for oil, another small benefit from taking real action to solve air pollution.

In my opinion the real problem with the US and the world for that matter is Religious fanatics. They put Bush in office so that they could deny Gays equal rights and take away a woman's right to choose. They don't care about or even know anything about any other issues. Look at these sick ******** who are protesting at soldiers funerals because they hate gays! I'm not sure Bush cares about anything but Money. Greed is destroying our country.

The problem is we are all helpless. Bush's latest approval is at 34% and congress is about the same level. Obviously our elected officials are not doing the job we want them to do. This has gone on way too long I can't even comment about smoking!!!!

Michael
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Old 03-07-2006, 11:08 AM   #14
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I got thinking that I should probably give a little more detail about the religious protestors. We are in Mexico right now so we get our news from home on CNN.

There is a religious group from Kansas who are attending fallen soldiers funerals. They carry signs and yell at the families trying to morn the loss of their sons and daughters. Their protest is about Gays. I guess it must be Gays in the Military? They yell at the families that their sons and daughters deserved to die in Iraq.

In todays news a biker group had gathered to protect the family from the protestors. Fortunately the religious protestors didn't show up. I was proud of my biker brothers and wish I could have been there to help.

I know some of you won't agree but these people easily qualify as Sick and Sad!

Michael

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