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Old 06-03-2009, 08:19 PM   #15
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Guess I did not know that the Unions had all the power, I was under the apparently false impression that management was responsible not to agree to negotiations or an agreement that would not allow for the long term survival and prospering of the company. It takes two to consumate a bargaining agreement so it is really not genuine to place all the blame on the unions, management HAS to share this blame. While I agree wholeheartedly that labor concessions have gone way overboard in proportion to the rest of society, upper management compensation is just as obscene. The more the rank and file get, the easier it is for management to get greatly inflated compensation packages. Does the idea of the fox guading the henhouse ring a bell? It is really easy to place all the blame on unions, it just is not factual and does not hold water in a truly objective inspection of the problem. There is plenty of blame to go around. All just my opinion, as I understand very well, I just think we have way bigger problems in this country than blaming everything on unions OR one poloitical party, remember the other party was in power when the first GM bailout was made. Politicians, (most all of them in my opinion) have forgotten they are there for the good of the country and to put country above party and getting reelected. We need fundamental changes in this country and time will tell if we are strong enough and have the will to pull it off. Guess bottom line, I THINK we do have the intelligence, will, ability and intestional fortitude to get back on track. I just keep remembering that our form of government is the worst on earth, except for all the others. I know that I for one sure appreciate being able to have a different opinion than many others and being able to feel safe and secure voicing my opinion and having discussions like we are having here. It will be important for EVERYONE to have their say and to keep an open mind to co-mingle various solutions to come to one that will work and that we can all live with. Sorry to be so long winded, just feel like this is an important discussion that we should all be having in this country. Thanks for reading, now blast away as I understand there are a LOT of sides to this story and the debate will go on for sometime. Gene

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Old 06-03-2009, 08:22 PM   #16
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Can't wait to buy the New CHummer from ChungKing Motors!!!!

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Old 06-03-2009, 09:01 PM   #17
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I had the opportunity to work directly with many key parts of Government Motors in 2005 for almost a year as a vendor representative. It was very hard for me to tell that I wasn't working with a government entity even then. The inept bureaucracy, inter-departmental blame games and total lack of focus on what as important just made me shake my head and wonder how long it would take for the whole house of cards to fall. I guess we all now know the answer to that.

The most important part of all of this to me is that our Federal government has usurped the authority to act in regard to Government Motors. We will all live to regret that. Our Constitution specifically did NOT give our Federal government that kind of power and on purpose. Because the results are the same a Venezuela. No, this isn't a political statement. All political parties are in this mess up to their necks. Chavez has directly nationalized many industries - and now so has our government. As painful as a direct bankruptcy might have been, it would have been far better for General Motors than to have it become Government Motors. We are all sitting here, concentrating on this problem when most of our banking system is in exactly the same position - Federal government owned. The "stress test" accomplished nothing but securing that government ownership. We are only a very short distance for our Federal government owning our health care system, too. Even Chavez isn't that bold.

Call me chicken little but I feel big hunks of things hitting me in the head. I think it is pieces of the Constitutional structure that made this country great crumbling around us. The problem is much bigger than unions, bad management or building cars that no one will want to buy.
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:41 PM   #18
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The problem with GM and many others is just like the problem in Cities and Counties in California. The pension plans are so underfunded that the "parent companies" can't possibly pay them now or in the future. Promises were made that can't be changed and now they can't be kept, leaving bankruptcy as the only alternative. I am not against pensions as I receive one my self. The difference in my pension is no COLA's, so my pension has remained the same for the last 18 years. The cities and the counties (and possible the state of California) will have to declare bankruptcy to get out from under the underfunded pension mess.
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:29 AM   #19
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We wrecked our 2005 Jeep Liberty that was our toad. After we return from Alaska, we will have to buy a new toad.

The two vehicles I am interested in are a Jeep Wrangler Sahara (Chrysler) or a Saturn Vue (GM). I have basically decided not to buy the Saturn Vue if they are still owned by GM and run by Obama as the real CEO of GM and by the UAW. If Chrysler looks viable, then I will probably buy the Jeep Wrangler because it is the one I want.

I wish that Ford would buy Jeep from Chrysler. Ford is the only one of the Big 3 not sticking it to the American people.

I feel that after Obama gets through dictating to the car industry on what cars we the American public want to buy, that they will not make any vehicles worth having. I wonder if GM will name any of their "Green" cars the Obamamobile?
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Old 06-04-2009, 05:14 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by BigSkyBob View Post
Well, you could be driving a Monaco coach and towing a Dodge pickup
i resemble that remark
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Old 06-04-2009, 06:06 AM   #21
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Thankfully we now have the Congress poised to run the major auto industry on our behalf. They, this and previous administrations, have demonstrated such a true ability to get things done right and under time and coast analysis, that not trusting in their managerial ability would be downright non American. The appointment of a car czar with little or no experience in his area of domain should insure us all of the Governments' consistency in matters of using taxpayer funds for taxpayers advantage. In other words..Oh Boy!

Best to all..Jack&Rita
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Old 06-04-2009, 06:48 AM   #22
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Old 06-04-2009, 06:55 AM   #23
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When a union says we will shut down your business unless you agree to our terms, that's not exactly making the best agreement for the long-term future of the company. That's extortion.

The union employee is free to quit and find a better employer if the terms are not acceptible. An employer can't negotiate with a different union if the terms are not acceptible.
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Old 06-04-2009, 06:59 AM   #24
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EASY payments --- and we've gone GREEN

Look at the bright side of this . . . the manner in which you make your car payments is much easier AND we are all a bit GREENER

How you ask?

Easy Car payments? --- now they require no silly coupons or checks or stamps --- they are just withheld from your paychecks for the next . . . hmmm . . . well, forever. Same goes for your kids' and grandkids' earnings. The payments are embedded in the "taxes withheld" category.

A Bit Greener? --- you'll not add to any global warming or ozone or carbon monoxide issues because you don't ever get to drive the new car for which the payments are made!

See --- it's a fabulous plan! Plus corporate executives and managers still get their big bonuses and workers will likely still get better pensions and health care coverage than you. What a country! Ingenious . . .


Whew --- glad that's done . . . now let's go tackle heath care.
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:39 AM   #25
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This advice to a 58 year old contemplating retiring early, buying a coach & hitting the road, yesterday off the Yahoo Diesel RV Group:

There are a lot of real good used deals out there, just let your fingers do the walking. And if you get upside down when you are done, just walk away from it. Finance it with Government Motors Acceptance Corporation and you will have no worries.
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Old 06-04-2009, 02:58 PM   #26
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But don't forget the best part!! You've already been paying for the gas for this car for a couple of years now, so that means you have a surplus of gas for the new car you don't get to drive. Isn't that great!!!
Your never too old to have a happy childhood.
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Old 06-05-2009, 01:46 PM   #27
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Guys, why worry over the small stuff...Obama will take care of us, for he is all wise...
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:33 PM   #28
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If they do not get rid of that “30 years and out” early retirement plan, then they are doomed to fail again. Any business plan that allows a 50 year old to retire with a good partially funded pension and a totally unfunded gold plated family health is doomed to go bankrupt again. The taxpayers who have to work until they are 65 will be paying for the 50 year old retirees, many of who are RV’ers. This is morally wrong and I guess it’s what you get when you donate half a billion dollars to liberal politicians.

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