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Old 05-19-2012, 04:11 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Midniteoyl View Post
It always did.. the farmers apply for a 90 day work visa for them.. those are 'legal'
Not according to the law passed last year. Thus the ammendment to that law to exempt agriculture workers. The farmers raised a big stink and got it changed.
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:21 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Rubix cube View Post
That is not quite correct. Driving is a privilege, obtained with a license. But, I suspect most of us forget that, as we are good drivers and for the most part law abiding citizens.

Make sure you know the facts about unreasonable search and seizures before punching that tar baby.

This issue has been before the Supreme Court, and the Chief Justice left it to the states to determine what minimal safeguards must be in place in order to avoid becoming overly intrusive, presumably to be reviewed by the courts on a case-by-case basis.

The 'plain view doctrine' says it is ok to peer into my vehicle looking at items in plain view. With 'probably cause' (which can be as simple as a drug sniffing dog from outside the vehicle), a reasonable belief that a person has committed a crime, police may search any part of the vehicle. With reasonable suspicion (suspicion based on specific and articulate facts, taken together with rational inferences from those facts) that a person has been, is, or is about to be engaged in criminal activity, the person can be detained for a short period of time (a Terry stop).

Heck, the state of CA has been doing it for decades to control non-human pests, and it hasn't been used as a precedent to become a police state.

On the other hand, if they had instituted the very search so many are torturing ourselves over on this thread, their state budget might not be so hosed right now.

In any event, the longer you hold onto those things which harm us, assuming you aren't about to make a federal case, the more they have to potential to harm you.
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Really? Do you own a hunting or fishing license?

Where do you get this idea that I agreed to be searched anytime, without probable cause, just because I get a fishing license every year? I've read the regulations and saw nothing of the kind. Nor does it say anything on my license.... The US Constitution has guarantees against improper search and seizure. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point? The poster said he believed he got stopped because he had a 'bed topper' on his truck.... Probable cause? This is a slippery one, that's for sure.
If you are hunting, you are usually given and/or bought a 'tag'. These are limited and having them constitutes a waiver for a search to determine you have only taken the same number of animals as you have tags. Even in States without tags, or 'stamps' for fishing, this is still the case.

A driving licence is quite different and only means that you are of age, have passed a certain test, and (usually) have insurance..
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:36 AM   #115
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Not according to the law passed last year. Thus the ammendment to that law to exempt agriculture workers. The farmers raised a big stink and got it changed.
Then it must have been a goof, cause Federal Law says they come in under a 'Migratory Workers Visa'..
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:33 AM   #116
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They were doing their job. People complain about border security being too loose. I'm glad they are checking things out. You were not being hassled, so give it a rest. Stay in the US and there won't be any problems.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:42 AM   #117
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They were doing their job. People complain about border security being too loose. I'm glad they are checking things out. You were not being hassled, so give it a rest. Stay in the US and there won't be any problems.
The OP stated he was traveling east out of El Paso. That is in the U.S.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:54 AM   #118
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If they want to do their job correctly , let them get down there and guard the BORDER !! Not be miles from the border botherin us citizens.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:58 AM   #119
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Stop the illegal activity at the border, then if we cross into mexico and back into USA. Check us and look us over. That would be expected.
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:56 AM   #120
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If you are hunting, you are usually given and/or bought a 'tag'. These are limited and having them constitutes a waiver for a search to determine you have only taken the same number of animals as you have tags. Even in States without tags, or 'stamps' for fishing, this is still the case.

A driving licence is quite different and only means that you are of age, have passed a certain test, and (usually) have insurance..
The State of Indiana, your resident state, can certainly take your license and privilege of driving away: BMV: Suspension and Reinstatement

"Indiana law gives courts the authority to order the Indiana BMV to suspend a motoristís driving privileges when he or she is found to have committed certain traffic violations."
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Old 05-20-2012, 11:43 AM   #121
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PNR, they are at the border. They are called Border Crossing Agents. The checkpoints are for those people who are coming across the country without having been in Mexico. I think I said this in an earlier post. The drug dog signaled on tractor/trailer coming through and they found 900 lbs. of marijuana coming from California and then the dog signaled on a car occupied by 2 women they had marijuana in their car also coming from California. Unless you live out here in West Texas you have no idea what WE have to go through.

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Old 05-20-2012, 11:45 AM   #122
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Baa Sure illegal immigrants are an issue. Look what happened when Georgia and Alabama cracked down. No one was around to pick the crops. Analysis and research shows that the history of our country is based on immigrants. They have historically come here for opportunity and take the jobs no one else wants. Build railroads, maids, manual labor, etc. Those jobs provided their children a chance to get an education and then take better jobs. It's only been since WWII that we have restricted immigration to such an extent that entering illegally is some people's only option.

No dictionaries were used in the posting of this opinion.
The key word in your post is Immigrants. The issue is not immigrants (legal), rather illegal (read:ILLEGAL) border crossers. They have left damaged desert land which will cost untold HUNDREDS of $millions to clean up. In addition, they are responsible for dozens of deaths from auto chases. Not to mention the crimes they commit once they get here. Also, they come up and are held prisoner by their coyotes.

It would help the situation if people would learn the real story and quit following the 'open border' crowd.

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Old 05-20-2012, 12:13 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Midniteoyl View Post
If you are hunting, you are usually given and/or bought a 'tag'. These are limited and having them constitutes a waiver for a search to determine you have only taken the same number of animals as you have tags. Even in States without tags, or 'stamps' for fishing, this is still the case.
Since we're being nit-picky here - I beg to differ with your whole concept of being searched simply because you are driving around with a fishing license in your pocket. It waives nobody's rights. Does having a driver's license waive your rights against search without probable cause? I think not.

Many hunting/fishing activities are legal without any tag or stamp. The right of a cop or game warden to check a license (or a tag) should only occur when someone is in the field and that person is presumably engaged in a licensed or permitted activity. I would argue that this is probably appropriate and not a mis-use of authority. But I don't believe the warden has any right to search a vehicle or a person without probable cause. If that were the case, it would be presuming guilt without reason to believe a crime is being committed. But, the poster inferred that having a canopy on a pickup while driving is NOT probable cause. And I agree. Your point was that citizens give up their protections against unlawful search and seizure just because they bought a hunting or fishing license. I disagree, that's all.
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:14 PM   #124
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The OP entitled the post "Harrassed by the Border Patrol today." I replied I didn't think it was 'harassment' then went on to comment on theatre of some inspections and how ineffectual they are in real deterrent.

All the bluster and posturing by some my fellow posters is disturbing. On the one hand, people want freedom to move without having identify themselves, destination, etc. On the other, they want the criminals stopped and the borders controlled.

Fact is, when/if I get stopped, I COOPERATE. In college, I had been canoeing at a reservoir near dark. By the time we had the canoe secured to the roof, it had gotten dark, the park was closed. As we were getting ready to leave, a LEO pulled up behind and turned on his lights. He came to the window and asked for registration. I leaned (quickly) for the glove box to get it, and heard a metallic click at my ear. Girlfriend screamed, and I froze. The LEO had pulled his gun. I explained I going for the papers, he said do it slowly. We explained why we were still in the park. We were all shaking at what had happened. He took time to explain empty park, after hours, lunge for glove box, why he drew. I understood and we all relaxed.

I am always aware and careful at all inspections and stops. I try to see from the other side. If I feel I've been treated unfairly, I would complain to supervisor, later, by mail. Bluster and claiming constitutional rights at the scene will only create a scene.

We live in a dangerous world and there can be bad people out there. We 'good' people need to keep observant and cooperate. A stop should only take a few minutes. Leave early if it makes you late. They're doing their job. If you feel you've been treated badly, step back and look at your behavior. If you still think you've been wronged, complain, LATER.
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:37 PM   #125
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I feel many would have no problem applying for and carrying a travel visa, just to travel in the USA .

Apply early, tell them the dates you will be on the roads, let them approve you plans !! let them search your car and put a tamper proof seal on it , then start your travels.


We also should give them our I iternary that way they can make sure we follow it, using a gps tracker !
Would Some of you ever protest . I doubt it.

The problem is the BORDER ! Let the border agents get down there and SEAL it.

If we cross the border then we need checked .

Paul
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:45 PM   #126
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If they want to do their job correctly , let them get down there and guard the BORDER !! Not be miles from the border botherin us citizens.
You DO realize that the state of Texas all by itself has a border with Mexico just under TWO THOUSAND miles long?

Where "on the border" do you want the Border Patrol agents to sit? At the border crossings only? Or should the 1000 BP agents in Texas each take 1/2 mile of that long, dry desolate border and each patrol it 24 hours a day?

Just as long it doesn't annoy YOU for 5 or 10 minutes out of your day?

I don't like abrogating my rights, either, but with the incredibly lax standards we now have for our borders, I'm not going to complain about the Border Patrol trying to do their job while they are hogtied by Political Correctness and what appears to be a political willingness in Washington DC to encourage illegal immigration from Mexico.

For a good portion of that Mexican border, what we have is a barb wire fence with a dirt road on the northern side of it. Surely nobody in their right mind thinks this is high-tech 21st century cutting-edge border security.

But this is apparently the best we can do.
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