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Old 06-29-2012, 07:23 AM   #155
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Flip of the coin. I'm trying to protect my family from the ginormous tree killer vehicle that you're driving!
3rd side...

.... how about; deer, tractor trailers (how your vehicle probably got to you), motorcycles.....

....to each his own...

Interesting, http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...K_KyKcb-UBYKAg

I will pay the price to protect my family in the form of higher fuel bills... sigh...
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Old 06-29-2012, 07:33 AM   #156
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How does this 7 or 8 mpg fit into your carbon footprint? If you are going to look down at others, then you need to walk the walk as well as talk the talk.
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Old 06-29-2012, 07:51 AM   #157
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With all the electric power stored in the Prius battery, you'd think Toyota would try to expand their market share by attracting lumberjacks etc. Like throw in a free electric chain saw with each Prius purchase.
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:06 AM   #158
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How does this 7 or 8 mpg fit into your carbon footprint? If you are going to look down at others, then you need to walk the walk as well as talk the talk.
I'll wager it's lower than my stick house which I'll be leaving soon.

And what is a former Ford technologist doing with a Nissan pickup???
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:26 AM   #159
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Hey....as much fun as it is to hurl insults at one another, it really doesn't matter whether you use HE light bulbs or drive a 50mpg hybrid car.....we're all pretty much doomed however you slice it. NONE of us are getting outta here "alive"!

"Saving the Planet" is one of my favorite phrases. Who are you kidding? The planet has been around for 4,500,000,000 (4.5 billion) years. Modern (?) Man, despite what the creationists believe, has been around for give or take 150,000yrs. For crying out loud, the dinosaurs lasted 165,000,000 (165 million) yrs and they didn't even know how to change a light bulb! I'm gonna go out on a limb here and predict Planet Earth will do just fine without us.

We've still got to make another 164,000,000yrs and change to catch-up with the gang from Durassic Park, and we can debate hybrid vrs hummers all day, but the real threat is people. Real simple....we've got to stop " fooling around" ...literally...we've got to stop all this recreational procreation.

In 1804 the Planet reached it's first 1,000,000,000 (1 billion) people. If you are keeping score...it took 149,700 yrs to reach 1billion and we managed the 2nd billion in 125yrs (1927). It gets better...it only took us 50 more years of serious "fooling around" to double that to 4 billion (1975) and then, with the introduction of "the pill" we slowed down and in the next 50 yrs we were only able to hit 7 billion last year in 2011.

Granted we have started to slow the pace since the elimination of the drive-in theatre and video games, but by around 2070 we will likely hit the 14 billion mark.....does anyone really think it is going to matter whether or not you remember to turn-off the lights in the kitchen or your new Prius gets 100mpg?

Lock-up your daughters before it is too late!,,,,!
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:48 AM   #160
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Never been a Ford Technologist and have never played one on TV. I do have 2 Nissans and a 8.1 L chevy engine. I love my carbon foot print and think each person's is up to them. I grew up next door to Thomas Edison's estate and have visited his laboratory hundreds of times. I love the now illegal to buy 100 watt light bulb and plan on using them the rest of my life no matter what the environmentalist tell me. I also still have a 3.5 gallon flush toilet which does a better job than any 1.3 gallon model. It is a matter of choice.
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:15 PM   #161
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Here's an article from the July 2012 issue of Popular Mechanics, page 44;

"only 35 percent of people who owned a hybrid bought another (hybrid) when new car shopping in 2011, according to research from R. L. Polk".

I wonder what they know (the buyers) that we don't ?

Kerry
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Old 06-29-2012, 02:39 PM   #162
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It's never too late to change the impact on the planet by someones lifestyle.

The Romans cleaned-up with the creation of plumbing and taking sewage away from their homes...of course there was that little thing called the Dark Ages, but plumbing is back in a BIG WAY!!

And more recently, remember what SMOG was like in big cities the '70's. There's still pollution in the L.A. basin, but NOTHING like it was in the '70's.

I disagree that it's a wash, because we in America are taking steps toward a cleaner future for our children that could ultimatly free us of the current problems - foreign oil (why I bought the hybrids) and pollution.

European and Asian countries have super tiny cars and trucks (have you seen an RV from England?), but American don't want them.

I will drop the hybrid someday too, when something better comes out - like the new Escape with Ecoboost (high MPG with high power too).

I'm glad there are alternatives...like my 37' MH gets 6-12MPG!! - That's the same MPG that my '72 Malibu got...and we all can make our own descisions for a cleaner future...it's never too late.
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Old 06-29-2012, 02:46 PM   #163
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The Romans cleaned-up with the creation of plumbing and taking sewage away from their homes...of course there was that little thing called the Dark Ages, but plumbing is back in a BIG WAY!!
You know of course that the dark ages were caused by global cooling which is the opposite of global warming. The Midevil Warming Period, led to the Renascence which was substantially warmer than today. The warmer climate freed mankind from having to work so hard to survive and led to the modern lifestyle we have today.
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Old 06-29-2012, 03:05 PM   #164
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Interesting comments above from JACK1234; and his numbers are pretty much on ... give or take a 100,000 people.

What was more interesting was a 'study/research' I did (roughly) a month ago. Came up with some really surprising numbers, and in a couple of cases completely unexpected. As an example, come 2030, the population in Russia and China is expected to 'tank,' like drop like a rock.

In one case it's the young people saying 'We want to bring a Child into this?' In the other Population Control is alive and well with a major aging population. Or to put it another way, people will die far faster than they will be replaced. And candidly, that's what China needs?

'Murica, where will 'we' end up? Suggestion was strongly being made that in 50 to 75 years the 'White Anglo Saxon' will be a minority in the States. The why of that is the 'WASP' family unit averaged 2.2 children, they now average (depending upon whose number you wanted to choose) 1.6 to 1.8 (big deal, 2'ths of one percent?). But what the numbers mean is there are less being born than those who will die over time.

At 70 I'll never be around to see the end game, so it's just a mind game for me. "Third World?" As food/health improves (it will) they will expand exponentially. Mom Nature loves a high sperm count.
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Old 06-29-2012, 05:05 PM   #165
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What kind of RV do you drive and what mileage does it get? I guess you also believe in the myth of global warming too.
Most of us are "mature" enough to remember this:

"From the Jun 24, 1974, Time Magazine, entitled: "Another Ice Age?"
As they review the bizarre and unpredictable weather pattern of the past several years, a growing number of scientists are beginning to suspect that many seemingly contradictory meteorological fluctuations are actually part of a global climatic upheaval. However widely the weather varies from place to place and time to time, when meteorologists take an average of temperatures around the globe they find that the atmosphere has been growing gradually cooler for the past three decades. The trend shows no indication of reversing. Climatological Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age.Telltale signs are everywhere —from the unexpected persistence and thickness of pack ice in the waters around Iceland to the southward migration of a warmth-loving creature like the armadillo from the Midwest.Since the 1940s the mean global temperature has dropped about 2.7 F. Although that figure is at best an estimate, it is supported by other convincing data. When Climatologist George J. Kukla of Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory and his wife Helena analyzed satellite weather data for the Northern Hemisphere, they found that the area of the ice and snow cover had suddenly increased by 12% in 1971 and the increase has persisted ever since. Areas of Baffin Island in the Canadian Arctic, for example, were once totally free of any snow in summer; now they are covered year round.
Scientists have found other indications of global cooling. For one thing there has been a noticeable expansion of the great belt of dry, high-altitude polar winds —the so-called circumpolar vortex—that sweep from west to east around the top and bottom of the world. Indeed it is the widening of this cap of cold air that is the immediate cause of Africa's drought. By blocking moisture-bearing equatorial winds and preventing them from bringing rainfall to the parched sub-Sahara region, as well as other drought-ridden areas stretching all the way from Central America to the Middle East and India, the polar winds have in effect caused the Sahara and other deserts to reach farther to the south. Paradoxically, the same vortex has created quite different weather quirks in the U.S. and other temperate zones. As the winds swirl around the globe, their southerly portions undulate like the bottom of a skirt. Cold air is pulled down across the Western U.S. and warm air is swept up to the Northeast. The collision of air masses of widely differing temperatures and humidity can create violent storms—the Midwest's recent rash of disastrous tornadoes, for example.
Sunspot Cycle. The changing weather is apparently connected with differences in the amount of energy that the earth's surface receives from the sun. Changes in the earth's tilt and distance from the sun could, for instance, significantly increase or decrease the amount of solar radiation falling on either hemisphere—thereby altering the earth's climate. Some observers have tried to connect the eleven-year sunspot cycle with climate patterns, but have so far been unable to provide a satisfactory explanation of how the cycle might be involved.
Man, too, may be somewhat responsible for the cooling trend. The University of Wisconsin's Reid A. Bryson and other climatologists suggest that dust and other particles released into the atmosphere as a result of farming and fuel burning may be blocking more and more sunlight from reaching and heating the surface of the earth.
Climatic Balance. Some scientists like Donald Oilman, chief of the National Weather Service's long-range-prediction group, think that the cooling trend may be only temporary. But all agree that vastly more information is needed about the major influences on the earth's climate. Indeed, it is to gain such knowledge that 38 ships and 13 aircraft, carrying scientists from almost 70 nations, are now assembling in the Atlantic and elsewhere for a massive 100-day study of the effects of the tropical seas and atmosphere on worldwide weather. The study itself is only part of an international scientific effort known acronymically as GARP (for Global Atmospheric Research Program).
Whatever the cause of the cooling trend, its effects could be extremely serious, if not catastrophic. Scientists figure that only a 1% decrease in the amount of sunlight hitting the earth's surface could tip the climatic balance, and cool the planet enough to send it sliding down the road to another ice age within only a few hundred years.
The earth's current climate is something of an anomaly; in the past 700,000 years, there have been at least seven major episodes of glaciers spreading over much of the planet. Temperatures have been as high as they are now only about 5% of the time. But there is a peril more immediate than the prospect of another ice age. Even if temperature and rainfall patterns change only slightly in the near future in one or more of the three major grain-exporting countries—the U.S., Canada and Australia —global food stores would be sharply reduced. University of Toronto Climatologist Kenneth Hare, a former president of the Royal Meteorological Society, believes that the continuing drought and the recent failure of the Russian harvest gave the world a grim premonition of what might happen. Warns Hare: "I don't believe that the world's present population is sustainable if there are more than three years like 1972 in a row."




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Old 06-29-2012, 07:06 PM   #166
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I have argued that if they can not get the eggs are/are not good for you how are they going to get something like climate correct with about 100 years of data from 4.5 billion years.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:00 PM   #167
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First off they don't have accurate data from 100 yrs. ago, and second they wasn't anything but void 4.5 billion yrs. ago. So they are working with not only flawed data, but also data that didn't exist
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:14 PM   #168
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second they wasn't anything but void 4.5 billion yrs. ago.
Can you explain?

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