Hybrid tree hugger rant...

[fredaevans]

+1 Ramblin, save for I usually skip the soaking bit unless the cooking cycle is going to be a long one (rare).

[swampdog2]

when i get to the point in life that saving fuel is the only thing that matters i will buy a bicycle and and improve my gas discharge ! and see how that help's the environment

[W4MBG]

globally: good.

locally: not so good.

[RustyJC]

Originally Posted by swampdog

when i get to the point in life that saving fuel is the only thing that matters i will buy a bicycle and and improve my gas discharge ! and see how that help's the environment

Sorry, but methane is a greenhouse gas. Now, what are we going to do to regulate the discharge of all those cattle, horses, wildlife, etc.

Rusty

[elkhornsun]

I feel sorry for kids growing up today with the sorry state of the world our selfish generation is leaving them. I have a truck that gets 15 MPG with diesel and a coupe that gets 28 MPG with premium and a Prius that gets 45 MPG on regular. Guess which vehicle I drive the most? I can get 45 MPG at 75 MPH whereas with the diesel truck I need to stay at 60 MPH to get the 15 MPG.

The Prius is a very comfortable car for 4 large adults and with the rear seats folded down it has a large cargo capacity - I put 28 cases of wine there and drove 120 miles back home from a winery with no problems in terms of acceleration and handling. In California the car has a 150,000 mile warranty on the batteries with free replacement if they fail before then.

There is an old saying that if you are a fool it is better to keep you mouth closed and let people think it then to open your mouth and confirm it.

[Lindsay Richards]

I might note that the $7,500 subsidy that you received when buying your hybrid went straight to the deficit and will be paid for by our kids and grandchildren. Don't feel too smug about your transferring of debt to them. You have proved the old saying you intended for the 98% of us who drive real vehicles. The fossil fuel shortage is contrived by the politicians as we have a century or more domestically, but politicians don't want us to use it.

[menoble]

Originally Posted by Lindsay Richards

I might note that the $7,500 subsidy that you received when buying your hybrid went straight to the deficit and will be paid for by our kids and grandchildren. Don't feel too smug about your transferring of debt to them. You have proved the old saying you intended for the 98% of us who drive real vehicles. The fossil fuel shortage is contrived by the politicians as we have a century or more domestically, but politicians don't want us to use it.

Just like we pumped all the easy oil out of Texas, the world will eventually use up all of the fossil fuel resources. With the most populous nations on earth economy's growing, the fossil fuel consumption will increase exponentially. The future belongs to those who will develop an affordable alternative energy source. That will take an investment in science, technology, and education. Sadly, it ain't gonna happen here. We're barely able to maintain the current infrastructure, and new projects get shut down or delayed for years due to 'environmental impacts'.
I'm not a huge fan of nuclear energy, it has it's share of evils, but we should be building new plants using today's technology instead of trying to half-a** patch together 40-50 year old plants, JMO.

[ralphie]

Maybe my closest family has been insulated, but everyone we know leans toward the more conservative side. I can't speak for all of us, but I wouldn't mind having someone close to argue with, civilly. From my perspective, what the country needs is a comprehensive energy policy. What that means to me is that the Pubs and Dems need to put everything on the table for a civil discourse. If we keep going down the same road energy-wise, I'm afraid we'll continue to rely on mid-east oil to our detriment. We have enough energy available right here in the good old USA to keep us going for more than 100 years, or at least until the break through on new energy sources is found. We need more refineries, and the enviros need to step out of the way of those. We need to ensure that we pull oil out of the ground without damage to the environment. We need more nuke plants, but we need to resolve the nuke waste issue. We won't get to those issues unless we have a comprehensive energy policy that takes all these issues into consideration. For example, the corn state politicos need to give up on their ethanol subsidies that are bad for the environment. Again, all interests have to be considered, and reasonable people need to understand when their policies are bad, and need to be adjusted. I'll get off my soap box now.

[Lindsay Richards]

I was shocked to learn that 40% of the US corn crop goes into ethanol. This raises prices world wide and really hurts the third world countries. I wish we would spend money on alternative research instead of building these solar plants with today's technology that are domed to fail without government subsidies. I want to be the first on my street with a competitive solar system, but they do not exist. We need to look at all types of energy and forget the politics.

[cb1000rider]

Originally Posted by Lindsay Richards

I might note that the $7,500 subsidy that you received when buying your hybrid went straight to the deficit and will be paid for by our kids and grandchildren. Don't feel too smug about your transferring of debt to them.

That's our fault as voters. Then again, how many of you are going to look past your political party and vote for the guy/gal that says, "look, we've spent too much money. I'm going to both raise your taxes and decrease your benefits..."

Those people don't get elected.
I see people bragging about getting their "piece" of the bank bail-out by walking away from their mortgage even though they're capable of paying.


On fossil fuels, the reality is that we'll never run out. It's just that the remaining fuel will be come too costly to extract. Technology does improve availability, but we're having to drill in tougher and tougher spots. As such, I consider (defect) spending on hybrid incentives to be helping to push innovation...

I agree with most that buying a Civic or Hybrid Civic - they hybrid may not pay back in the next 15 years. Let alone those people buying hybrid SUVs.

On the up side, the 400hp V8 of the 1960s got about 5-8 mpg. We now push 500hp (think about the new Corvette) and can get 20-28 mpg on the highway. That's technology.. And fuel cost.. And legislation...

In summary, I have mixed feelings on the issue.. But if we never attempted the hybrid thing, it would continue to be non-feasible in reality.

For about $60k, I can buy a LEAF and enough of a solar grid to charge it (during the day, when I've got to use it)... Or I can energy swap in the grid.

[BCooke]

I vote for the guy who says the government spends to much.....they are spending OUR money.

[docj]

Originally Posted by ralphie

Maybe my closest family has been insulated, but everyone we know leans toward the more conservative side. I can't speak for all of us, but I wouldn't mind having someone close to argue with, civilly. From my perspective, what the country needs is a comprehensive energy policy. What that means to me is that the Pubs and Dems need to put everything on the table for a civil discourse. If we keep going down the same road energy-wise, I'm afraid we'll continue to rely on mid-east oil to our detriment. We have enough energy available right here in the good old USA to keep us going for more than 100 years, or at least until the break through on new energy sources is found. We need more refineries, and the enviros need to step out of the way of those. We need to ensure that we pull oil out of the ground without damage to the environment. We need more nuke plants, but we need to resolve the nuke waste issue. We won't get to those issues unless we have a comprehensive energy policy that takes all these issues into consideration. For example, the corn state politicos need to give up on their ethanol subsidies that are bad for the environment. Again, all interests have to be considered, and reasonable people need to understand when their policies are bad, and need to be adjusted. I'll get off my soap box now.

Even though you may consider yourself to be a conservative and I usually think of myself as a liberal, I am in total agreement with your summary of what needs to be done. If the politicians would stop arguing with each other long enough to focus on the problems they would realize that this is the only sensible path forward. Green energy and green jobs will exist, over time, but for quite a few years (decades?) green energy sources won't displace a significant percentage of the country's energy usage.

This situation has not changed since I was personally in the renewable energy business back in the 80's during the "first energy crisis" (for those old enough to remember it). Everyone wants a "quick fix" and the politicians dangle solutions as if one exists. There is no simple, fast solution and there never has been. We do need to develop new, renewable energy sources but the infrastructure for them takes time to develop and put in place. If we want electric or hydrogen-powered cars in significant number, we will need places to fuel them, for example. It's fine to use your new Nissan Leaf for commuting, but no one is going to take their new Tesla out for a 150 mile drive unless they know they can recharge it somewhere.

Your post says it very well; we need "civil discourse" of the issues if we expect to move forward as a country.

[wa8yxm]

There are many examples of "Greenies" sticking their nose in between someone's upper and lower teetn and then administrating an uppercut.

Some years ago McDonalds delivered the Big Mac to the counter in a Styrofoam box.. This box, they shorted out of the trash and recycled, But the greenies made them switch back to wax paper, which can not be recicled, and takes as long to break down as the plastic does. (Forever it appears).. Today they use waxed card stock for many of the burgers, but alas... That too does not break down and can not be recycled.

E-xx gasoline.. Takes more than a gallon of oil to make a gallon of ethonol, and there is less "punch" in EtOh than Gasoline so you burn more gallons of it, a Double Wammy, but they are up to E-85 now at the pumps.

Though I do admit they are working on better sources of alcohol.

One slight advantage to E-x (That's single digit) is if you run at least E-1 or greater, in Michigan in the Winter (or other "Winter" states) Gas line freezup is NOT going to be an issue.

I have had that problem, as have others in the past.

[cb1000rider]

Originally Posted by BCooke

I vote for the guy who says the government spends to much.....they are spending OUR money.

Honestly, I don't see much of a difference. In generic terms:
One party is going to raise taxes and keep benefits the same or better.
One party is going to lower our taxes and promises to decrease benefits or keep them the same. Nevermind that we've historically proven one thing: It's really hard to decrease spending and decrease government.

Both parties own special interests for the money it took to get them elected.

Neither party offers a solution... And both blame the other.
The reality is we've spent too much and taxed too little. No one wants to pay up or have their particular sacred cow be part of the cost reduction.


I'm ready to pony up and be taxed at 40%. As long as it gets us out of debt in my lifetime. In the future, there has to be an amendment to keep us out of debt (maybe an exception for wartime). Tax me at 40%, but don't take another dime. The money I make on the remaining money is mine, should stay mine and doesn't get taxed again...