Go Back   iRV2 Forums > iRV2.com COMMUNITY FORUMS > Just Conversation
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-31-2011, 04:41 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 66
Hydrogen as Fuel

New technology makes hydrogen more viable car fuel

By Stuart McDill Thu Mar 31, 5:21 am ET

LONDON (Reuters Life!) A new technology that allows hydrogen to be stored in a cheap and practical way, could make its widespread use as a carbon-free alternative to petrol a reality, according to its developers.

The technology is based on a new way of producing nano-fibers from hydrides, materials that soak up hydrogen like a sponge, and then encapsulating them in tiny plastic beads so small they behave like a liquid.

The process is being developed by Cella Energy, a spin-off from Britain's Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, who say that the technique allows hydrogen to be released at a much faster rate and at lower temperatures than before.

"What we've been doing is taking these materials and encasing them in plastic and making them into a very fine powder and that improves their properties," Cella Energy Chief Scientific Officer Stephen Bennington said. "It also means you can pump it like a fluid and it's safe. It is not gong to easily burst into flames," he said.

Hydrogen produces only water when its burned and is considered an ideal solution to cutting carbon emissions from petrol or diesel vehicles, which are estimated to cause 25 percent of all carbon release.

But until now, attempts to store hydrogen have not been consumer-friendly so this has not been a viable option. Cella Energy Ltd say their technology would allow people to use the carbon-free fuel with their existing car after a few modifications.

"You would pump it into your petrol tank of your car -- that would go off, be heated, drive the hydrogen off, which would go and run your vehicle and then the waste little beads that we have created you store in the car. And when you go and refuel your car you have two nozzles. One which puts in the new beads and one which takes out the old beads which goes off to be recycled and the hydrogen added to it again," Bennington said.

The development has been to turn hydrides into fibers or beads, 30 times smaller than a human hair, through a process of electro-spinning. This produces a white tissue-like material that can be controlled to capture and release hydrogen.

The encapsulation process protects the hydrides from oxygen and water, prolonging their life and making it possible to handle them safely in air and because it behaves like a liquid, current infrastructure will need minimal modification.

"You can use tankers to carry the material around," said Bennington. "You can take it to forecourts and then you can pump it into the vehicle and give the customer the same kind of experience they have now."

All part of the reason Cella Energy believe their process could herald a new era of carbon-free motoring.

"The experience that most people have now is using regular liquid fuels where it takes three minutes to fill your vehicle and then you can travel 300 miles," said Stephen Voller, Cella Energy's CEO. "Now you can have exactly the same experience with hydrogen but you can't have that experience with an electric car."

The company said hydrogen could be an economically viable alternative to fossil fuels if the gas is produced with renewable energy sources like wind or solar. It has three times more energy than petrol per unit of weight and could power cars, planes and other vehicles that currently use hydrocarbons.

It said it is also attracting interest from large established companies in the energy and transportation sectors.

(Editing by Paul Casciato) (end of article)

rops
__________________

__________________
rops is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-31-2011, 05:42 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Easyrider's Avatar


 
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Baraboo, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,565
This sounds promising, but no doubt will take a very long time to be use widely if at all. I think the main stumbling point will be producing enough renewable energy to make this feasible on a scale large enough to supply enough vehicles to make the manufacturers interested in pursuing this in the first place. Which will come first- the chicken or the egg?
__________________

__________________
Steve & Nancy
2005 Itasca Sunrise 33', W20 Chassis, Ultrapower, Henderson Trac Bar
2012 Chevy Captiva Sport AWD, ReadyBrute Elite Tow Bar, Blue Ox Base Plate, Protect-A-Tow
Easyrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 06:02 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
GaryKD's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wellington, Florida
Posts: 12,324
You heard it here first.

Natural Gas will be the next mass fuel for:
first the commercial fleets (OTR vehicles)
second the smaller commercial vehicles
lastly will be cars we drive.

In the past few years new technologies have made getting natural gas from shale very economical. Guess who has the most gas shale deposits on the planet? The good old USA. In the next 10 years or so there is going to be a big power shift back to the USA.

Pilot/Flying J is now in the design stages to provide the infrastructure for the OTR vehicles. Large OTR vehicle manufactures are planning to build tractors using natural gas. Shell Oil has been getting out of the oil business for the last decade. The Saudi's are changing their country's infrastructure so they will not depend on oil to run their own country.

At this time, shale gas can be produced so the pump price is about 1/2 that of the current diesel price.

You and I may never drive a natural gas powered car, but the trend is very obvious and billions are being spent (by private companies) to make this a reality.
__________________
Gary
2005 Newmar KSDP 3910 + GMC ENVOY XUV 37K lbs Moving Down The Road
The Avatar Is Many Times Around The USA
Nobody Knows Your Coach Like Somebody Who Owns One Just Like Yours
GaryKD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2011, 06:38 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
wa8yxm's Avatar
 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 22,825
There is another thread somewhere (Different kind of forum) about Hydrogen fueled cars. The big problem is re-fueling ... You can get Hydrogen at several locations in California, One in Nevada, near or in Las vegas, One in Utah, 2 in S.E. michigan as I recall and one near the east coast.

So if you are travelling cross country.. you WILL run out of fuel
__________________
Home is where I park it!
wa8yxm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2011, 01:46 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
hamguy's Avatar
 
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Mesa, AZ USA
Posts: 1,806
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryKD View Post
You heard it here first.

Natural Gas will be the next mass fuel for:
first the commercial fleets (OTR vehicles)
second the smaller commercial vehicles
lastly will be cars we drive.

In the past few years new technologies have made getting natural gas from shale very economical. Guess who has the most gas shale deposits on the planet? The good old USA. In the next 10 years or so there is going to be a big power shift back to the USA.

Pilot/Flying J is now in the design stages to provide the infrastructure for the OTR vehicles. Large OTR vehicle manufactures are planning to build tractors using natural gas. Shell Oil has been getting out of the oil business for the last decade. The Saudi's are changing their country's infrastructure so they will not depend on oil to run their own country.

At this time, shale gas can be produced so the pump price is about 1/2 that of the current diesel price.

You and I may never drive a natural gas powered car, but the trend is very obvious and billions are being spent (by private companies) to make this a reality.

Remember the Hindenburg!
__________________
Wretched excess is just barely enough.

2002 Itasca Suncruiser - WH Chassis - 35U - 2006 Jeep Liberty
hamguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2011, 04:49 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Easyrider's Avatar


 
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Baraboo, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,565
Actually it wasn't the hydrogen gas that burned up with the Hindenburg, most of the gas escaped and floated up in the air as it's lighter than air. What created the most flames that you see on the old film clips was the paint and surface material the Hindenburg was made of. To bad the film clip gave Hydrogen gas a bad name that it hasn't been able to shake ever since!
__________________
Steve & Nancy
2005 Itasca Sunrise 33', W20 Chassis, Ultrapower, Henderson Trac Bar
2012 Chevy Captiva Sport AWD, ReadyBrute Elite Tow Bar, Blue Ox Base Plate, Protect-A-Tow
Easyrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2011, 06:26 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Ray,IN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North America somewhere
Posts: 13,712
Of the two, I think natural gas will ultimately be the fuel that is the most economical and easiest to retail. This new proposed hydrogen storage media sound promising, however, producing hydrogen still requires more energy to produce.
__________________
2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA 1SG, retired;PPA,Good Sam Life member,FMCA."We the people are the rightful masters of both the Congress and the Courts - not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution. "Abraham Lincoln"
Ray,IN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2011, 07:24 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
wa8yxm's Avatar
 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 22,825
The Hindenburg not withstanding (yes, most of the gas escaped, but it was what got things going)

The big problem with Hydrogen cars is where to fuel them.. Just now there are a number of Hydrogen stations in California (I looked this up just a few days ago) ONe in Nevada (possibly in Las Vegas) one in Utah, I think two in S.E. Michigan and one over near (not on) the east coast.

It's a long way to hike with a pressurized container of gas, 2,000 miles between gas stations is a bit mroe than one tank I think.
__________________
Home is where I park it!
wa8yxm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2011, 07:43 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 348
I believe I read some where that one of the scandinavian countries is developing a hydrogen hwy along their coast. One thing about hydrogen it can be produced where ever you have power so it doesn't have to be shipped.
A gasoline tank full of fumes and a little liquid is more of a bomb than most realize.
__________________
05 Alpine 36MDDS, 09 Subaru Forester, no animals.
two sailors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2011, 10:52 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Easyrider's Avatar


 
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Baraboo, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,565
Quote:
The big problem with Hydrogen cars is where to fuel them.. Just now there are a number of Hydrogen stations in California (I looked this up just a few days ago) ONe in Nevada (possibly in Las Vegas) one in Utah, I think two in S.E. Michigan and one over near (not on) the east coast.
And that's why I ask which comes first- the chicken or the egg. I think it is Norway that has built the hydrogen highway. I would like to see hydrogen take off as a power source for vehicles, I'm not really encouraged about natural gas as a fuel source for vehicles, we heat our house with natural gas and I can see the cost of that going up if we start using natural gas for vehicles, just like the cost of food as gone up with the use of ethanol made from corn, if you look at the ingredients that make up most of the foods you eat, corn or something derived from corn is listed.
__________________
Steve & Nancy
2005 Itasca Sunrise 33', W20 Chassis, Ultrapower, Henderson Trac Bar
2012 Chevy Captiva Sport AWD, ReadyBrute Elite Tow Bar, Blue Ox Base Plate, Protect-A-Tow
Easyrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2011, 11:21 AM   #11
Moderator Emeritus
 
RickO's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Litchfield Park, Arizona
Posts: 10,530
I think it's great news on both fronts. I too have been reading more and more about the shift to natural gas and have been waiting patiently for a breakthrough in hydrogen and it sounds as though this could be it.

I think the article was clear on two points listed above as problems. Fueling stations would need to be converted to handle hydrogen (or NG for that matter), and the new storage process makes hydrogen behave like a liquid eliminating much of the explosion hazard.

Rick
__________________
Rick, Nancy, Peanut & Lola our Westie Dogs & Bailey the Sheltie.

2007 Itasca Ellipse 40FD
RickO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2011, 11:33 AM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by two sailors View Post
I believe I read some where that one of the scandinavian countries is developing a hydrogen hwy along their coast. One thing about hydrogen it can be produced where ever you have power so it doesn't have to be shipped.
A gasoline tank full of fumes and a little liquid is more of a bomb than most realize.

One gallon of gas equals 14 sticks of dynamite.
__________________
lincoln30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2011, 11:47 AM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 57
If there was a leak/accident it could be handled like propane. you let it vent off.

Of course unlike propane you don't burn it off. Hydrogen being lighter than air will rise and harmlessly drift off.

Propane being heavier has to be burnt. I learned this from an uncle who was a rural fire chief back in the 50's. If there was a major leak in the tanker you let it burn and put water on the tanker to keep it cool. If you just let it leak the propane would collect in the drainage ditch along the side of the road and a thrown cigarette could ignite it. After the tanker fire was put out they would throw a torch into the ditch.
__________________
lincoln30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2011, 11:53 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Western WA
Posts: 1,051
Two comments. A west Texas truck fleet tried CNG as their fleet fuel but abandoned it because of limited range with normal size fuel tanks. A tank big enough to give equal range as they were getting with diesel was not practical.

Expo 74, held in Spokane, WA in the summer of 1974 featured a hydrogen fuel exhibit with a fully functional Class C motor home fueled by hydrogen. The key to making affordable hydrogen from sea water was electricity produced by Nuclear Power. The hysteria created over the operator caused accident at Three Mile Island put a stop to that plan and it seems no one has the political courage to bring it up again in any serious way.

Good lead article. Hydrogen could become the available, affordable fuel of the future.
__________________

__________________
'07 Winnebago Journey 34H, ISB-02, MH2500
Toad - '08 Ford Taurus X
Blue Ox, Aventa
US Gear UBS
FleetMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fuel pressure problem TXredfish Workhorse and Chevrolet Chassis Motorhome Forum 11 12-21-2010 09:02 PM
Clogged fuel filter problems? nplenzick Cummins Engines 36 07-11-2010 03:15 PM
Fuel Contamination Problem CampingCaptain Cummins Engines 5 04-07-2009 03:46 PM
WH Fuel Filter - A closer Look Oemtech Workhorse and Chevrolet Chassis Motorhome Forum 63 11-08-2007 04:52 AM
Secrets to Better Fuel Economy JavaJelly Newmar Owner's Forum 5 11-30-2006 05:34 AM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.