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Old 07-06-2009, 09:52 AM   #15
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At least with the MH, we have a place to live with a roof over our head. And better yet, as long as we can get gas, we can move it or run if necessary. I like to keep a full tak of gas, even when we are home. That gives us about 600 miles running room.
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:07 AM   #16
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We're Americans, we'll survive. All we can do is not worry so much about it, look at the problems presented before us and take steps to resolve them. Are hard times upon us? Absolutely. Will we come out of this? Sure.

We survived the depression, we'll survive this.
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:25 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by LindaH View Post
Absolutely not! The U.S. has seen bad economic times before and we've always survived. If I had the same feeling of despair that you do...particularly at such a young age...I think I'd just end it all and be done with it.
Yes, we have been in bad economic times before. But, we have never been in such bad political times before. Our current leadership have turned this into a socialist country. The government has taken over numerous industries and not for the better. We cannot afford the spending policies now in place.

Since this is ranging into the political realm, I will say no more but watch your backside.
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:26 AM   #18
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Hey Y'all, How's hope and change working for you??? Looks like very little hope and no change. Now what??? Al
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Old 07-06-2009, 11:11 AM   #19
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Easy guys, they'll lock the thread if this goes too far.
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Old 07-06-2009, 12:33 PM   #20
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Easy guys, they'll lock the thread if this goes too far.
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Old 07-06-2009, 03:06 PM   #21
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Please! No politics!

While I do not disagree with erkme73, I definitely do agree with Hitchhiker that this is not the place for politically based exchanges. I also believe that the site sets the ground rules, and are not really required to explain them.

But hey, what do I know?
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Old 07-06-2009, 03:51 PM   #22
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The rules are inplace for a reason. The site originally allowed some moderate political and religious discussiosn, BUT in just about every case they broke out into name calling, spittin', cussin' and near war. Some people are really adament about their political and religious views and cannot carryout a reasonable discussion without resorting to name calling.

So the owners of the site decided it was not something that we wanted to permote or police such heated discussions. This site is about RVing and there are other sites to discuss the hot political issues and religious issues. The net result was banning all political and religious descussions.

We do allow some discussions, but follow them closely and will take action it the thread warrants action. So keep it within reason and no rants, name calling and spittin' or cussin' and a topic can be discussed.

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Old 07-06-2009, 04:01 PM   #23
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The rules are inplace for a reason. The site originally allowed some moderate political and religious discussiosn, BUT in just about every case they broke out into name calling, spittin', cussin' and near war. Some people are really adament about their political and religious views and cannot carryout a reasonable discussion without resorting to name calling.

So the owners of the site decided it was not something that we wanted to permote or police such heated discussions. This site is about RVing and there are other sites to discuss the hot political issues and religious issues. The net result was banning all political and religious descussions.

We do allow some discussions, but follow them closely and will take action it the thread warrants action. So keep it within reason and no rants, name calling and spittin' or cussin' and a topic can be discussed.

Ken
One of the things I like about this forum is that it doesn't allow what's called LEPR (Law, Ethics, Politics, Religion.) topics. These hot topics have ruined two of the bike forums I'm on, I feel that the "Active participants" simply can't hang in a real LEPR forum and try to bring it somewhere they can dominate the discussion.

My Granddad taught me that if you have friends you wish to keep don't discuss politics or religion even if you agree. There's some point where you won't and neither will budge.

Some claim censorship, I feel it keeps the forum energy where it needs to be.
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Old 07-06-2009, 04:28 PM   #24
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I personally stay away from POLITICS,RELIGION & UNIONISM discussions and all seem work out o.k. .02 and HO
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Old 07-06-2009, 04:30 PM   #25
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So my RV is my escape hatch. When I see the orange glow over the cities from the sprialing rioting and civil unrest, I will unplug, and head for the hills - or until I run out of gas.
Ya know, I've thought about that - a lot. For one, I watched the mass exodus from the hurricanes that ended up in the disaster of hundreds (thousands?) of cars running out of gas along the exit route. We might have survived a little longer than many for the sheer size of our RV tanks but I'm not sure how much longer. I really wonder, however, if any significant level of unrest would give us anyplace to escape to or that we could get out fast enough.

We are close enough to Dallas to see the orange glow if it started - and Dallas is one of the places where it easily could start. One can only hope that we'd have enough notice. Once on the road, the next stop isn't at all clear to me.

I guess if I felt strongly enough about the inevitability of the meltdown, I'd sell everything, squirreling away somewhere those things that I just cannot bear to part with but couldn't carry in the RV and start full timing now. The part that I do believe is inevitable is that our standard of living for at least the next 10 years is going downward. Today, we lead fairly frugal lives but comfortable lives. The RV is the one standout to the contrary but I already know that some are starting to target RVers. It isn't the government alone (although the forces within the current one are moving toward being RV unfriendly) but a portion of the citizenry. I've personally be accosted for the harm that I'm doing to the enviroment because of the RV. I'm not sure that in the event of civil unrest, I'd be safe from my fellow citizens in it. One, because some would think that it represents wealth and two because others blame global warming, etc. on anything that doesn't get 50mpg. I was appalled to listen to someone connect the evils of "extravagant lifestyles" to the root of our financial instability.
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Old 07-06-2009, 05:37 PM   #26
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I think I can say this without crossing the political line, if not please delete my post.

It is simple, it's all my fault.

1. I have worked hard all my life and was rewarded for my efforts, that's my fault.

2. I pay for what I get, I always believed that if you could not afford it, you could not afford it plus 18%, that's my fault.

3. I treat my Elders with respect and growing up, I only spoke to adults if spoken to first, that's my fault.

4. I did some things wrong, but I took responsibility for my actions, that's my fault.

5. I never cheated anyone or stole anything, cause that would be just wrong, that's my fault.

6. I believe that I should help those less fortunate that me, because someday I may have to atone for my actions, that's my fault.

7. I have never believed that the world owes me anything, that's my fault.

8. I always have kept my word even if I suffered by doing so, because that's all a man has that he can control, that's my fault.

9. I stand up for those that can not stand up for themselves because it is a moral obligation, that's my fault.

10. I knew at a young age that I would not know it all until I was and old man and when I got to be an old man, I found out that I still do not know it all, that's my fault.

11. I know the difference between right and wrong because my moral ethics exceed the "code of ethics" that many people portrait, that's my fault.

Well, I guess I just learned something else, you see it's not all my fault, it's my Mom's and Dad's fault, they taught me all the important lessons in life that established my direction for me!

Maybe it's time for the Moms and Dads of the world to Woman-up and Man-up!
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Old 07-07-2009, 06:44 AM   #27
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Well, thanks for leaving it open this long

It is a tough subject because most really do not want to believe that we're in the trouble that we're in. And, unfortunately, an observation about government has the appearance of political bias. My original post was not a slam at any particular party, or specific group.

Instead, I wanted to help everyone question what is being fed to them by the media, and if that's all they believe, what the potential consequences might be. I hear myself, and I realize what I say can be seen as extreme, or even paranoid. But, trust me, if you read headlines from outside the US, you realize how filtered our news is.

Just one example is how Japan recently publicly stated they have full confidence in the US dollar. Keep in mind that they own over $500B in US bonds. Thus, it's like owning a Winnebago, and then coming on these forums. Your natural inclination is to speak well of it to keep its value up.

Well, while they were talking it up, two Japanese government officials were caught trying to smuggle $134 BILLION dollars through Italy to Switzerland - presumably to sell/exchange them for other currencies or gold. They were doing this below the radar so as not to cause a confidence issue between the US and Japan, and to prevent the value of their remaining bonds from dropping. Not a word of this was mentioned on any national news outlet (except for a blurb on Bloomberg's website). It was a huge issue, with massive implications - two men carrying more US debt that the fifth largest debt-holding country? The national silence speaks volumes.

Next, consider that when our Secretary of Treasury Tim Geitner went to Bejiing to speak at his old university, he addressed a group of students regarding the strength and stability of the US dollar. Keep in mind that China now owns over $1 TRILLION dollars of US treasuries - and an another trillion of other US debt. When Geitner claimed the US dollar was fundamentally sound, and it's long-term strength was exceptional, the students literally drowned him out with laughter. Yet, the headlines in the US media read "Treasury Secretary well received, did great job in China". Again, nothing about the lack of confidence in the US.

I seriously don't consider this politics. Just as I wouldn't consider the transactional issues with paying a mortgage or credit card debt as political. They're facts, they're important, and the have the possibility of ruining life if not handled promptly and responsibly.

I used to think we were staring over the edge of cliff, and had only moments to react. I believe unequivocally that we have now fallen over the edge, and there's no going back.

To say we've survived other depressions and recessions, ignores the fact that this 'recession' (which I believe is a depression not yet announced) is so unprecedented - we have no manufacturing, ungodly amounts of debt, no governmental leadership other than finger-pointing and blaming - and a complete exodus from the dollar/US by other countries who have considerably less debt and more reserves. This has NEVER happened before.

Yes, we're Americans, but we're debt-ridden Americans with soon to be horrible credit. Just watch what's happening in California -where you get an IOU instead of a state refund on your taxes. The nation is going the same way. And when China, Germany, or Japan decides they don't want IOU's instead of payment for their merchandise, why would they continue selling to us? The argument use to be "Well who else are they going to sell to? We're the consumption engine of the world!" That WAS true. But imports are down, and we're not buying from them anyway. They're now shifting gears to sell to other countries who can afford to pay them (i.e Brazil and China are now selling to each other in the Yuan, completely forgoing the US$). India, Russia, they're all following Brazil's lead.

Meanwhile, we still think the world is the same place it's always been, and we're America, they'll always want to deal with us.

Please don't see this as Anti-American. I LOVE America. I just hate to see us with our heads in the sand, ignoring this perfect storm of issues that we're not being told about in the media.

At the end of the day, what can we as individuals do? I fear not much. Had the founding fathers been alive today, DC would have been in ashes a long time ago. But, given the collective fear of the government (i.e. 11th commandment: Thou shalt not mess with the IRS), we're too weak to change course. The only thing we can do, individually, is prepare for the worst-case scenario. I personally like Hays, KS. Out in the middle of nowhere.
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:33 AM   #28
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We're in deep doo, but frankly I don't want it tossed in my face on yet another forum.

I truly hope this isn't a trend here, because I won't follow it.

If it needs to be said directly to me PM it, I'm unsubscribing.
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