Go Back   iRV2 Forums > iRV2.com COMMUNITY FORUMS > Just Conversation
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-10-2010, 03:43 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Western NY
Posts: 2,798
Don't you think a lot of this is the advent of the big box? Personally I think the Wal Marts, Home Depots, Lowe's, and Best Buys of the world have hurt all of us. Gone is any level of service and any level of personal contact. The only thing that matters is the bottom line. I remember seeing a study that blamed the demise of the American textile industry on one company...Wal Mart. If I shop around I can beat the price of Wal Mart and every one of the box stores out there and even get better service. We've done it to ourselves with the end of the small business. We told the retailers that all we care about is price and they responded accordingly. We're now kind of like the guy who drives a foreign car and then complains that all the good American jobs are gone. As Pogo said, "We have met the enemy, and they are us."
__________________

__________________
2011 Berkshire 390bh (traded) 2018.5 Entegra Aspire 44R on order
wnytaxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-10-2010, 07:10 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
chasfm11's Avatar
 
Texas Boomers Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: DFW Area, TX
Posts: 2,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnytaxman View Post
Don't you think a lot of this is the advent of the big box? Personally I think the Wal Marts, Home Depots, Lowe's, and Best Buys of the world have hurt all of us. Gone is any level of service and any level of personal contact. The only thing that matters is the bottom line. I remember seeing a study that blamed the demise of the American textile industry on one company...Wal Mart. If I shop around I can beat the price of Wal Mart and every one of the box stores out there and even get better service. We've done it to ourselves with the end of the small business. We told the retailers that all we care about is price and they responded accordingly. We're now kind of like the guy who drives a foreign car and then complains that all the good American jobs are gone. As Pogo said, "We have met the enemy, and they are us."
No, I don't believe that the consumer was the major cause of this problem. IMHO, the shift to a price only focus is the result of the service failure. Please allow me to explain.

I'm a guy who has always made a habit of finding the local people who would stand behind their products and services. I prefer to do business with them, even if I have to pay more. In one great example, I bought a Ford Econoline van from a local dealer who was supposed to provide better service, during and after the sale. The whole thing turned out to be a disaster - they ordered the wrong vehicle and treated me like dirt every time I had contact with them. The extra $300 that I paid them (versus where I could have bought on price only), was a waste. So... I don't do that any more. If it is a "commodity" item, where everyone sells exactly the same product, I work on price. I do a lot of business with Amazon. Their service has proved to be flawless, even when a glitch developed.

I will still pay more for good service. I just need to find businesses that are willing to provide it. I'm of the opinion that most warranties are not worth that powder it would take to blow them up.
__________________

__________________
2000 Georgie Boy Landau 36' DP
2005 Saturn Vue toad
KF5-NJY
chasfm11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2010, 08:04 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
RJay's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,589
Wnytaxman,
First, I don't believe that Walmart, or any of the other business you mention are the “bullies of the block”. If you go to Walmart for an oil change, you will drive away paying the posted cost for that service, no hidden charges, nothing done that you didn't authorize and no phantom charges.

That wasn't the case when I brought my motorhome to Cummins for service. Since we are now mostly a service economy most of the abuses occur in the service industry. If you have an item that's broken and don't know what's wrong with it you are basically at the mercy of the specialist who is servicing your item. Almost every automotive repair has a specific time assigned to a repair activity and if the technician beats that time he gets a bonus. But we as customers don't know what specifically goes into that activity. For example, if a car is brought to a mechanic because the oil pan seal is leaking, you may be bill for steam cleaning the bottom of the engine when that activity is already included as part of the total job. This is the kind of abuses I'm talking about.
__________________
2007 Newmar DSDP 4023
Discovery is seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought.
If you want to see what man made go East; if you want to see what God made go West.
RJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2010, 11:00 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Western NY
Posts: 2,798
RJay,

I would agree with you contention that going for a repair to any vehicle is a chance to get taken to the cleaners. Sadly that is the case for many services. I'm a CPA and the perfect example of a rip off for services occured with one of our clients last year. We had prepared the tax return for this older couple. The lady called me a few days after we had completed the return. We had not e-filed the return yet as we were waiting for her to return the forms. She called and said that she had gone to a national chain of tax preparers and that they had said that we had made mistakes on the return and they were going to file the return. I asked her what the mistakes were and she said that we did not have her medical miles on the return. I checked the file and told her that she didn't itemize and for her medical miles to count she would have to have over 60,000 miles for medical. I asked her the amount of the difference on the national chain's calculation and ours. She told me it was $125. I asked her what else was different and she told me that we had missed the fact that she is blind. I had a hard time to keep from laughing when I told her that she can't qualify as being blind when she can still drive. The national chain was literally filing a phony tax return for increased fees.

A lot of people go to national chains thinking they are cheaper, better, or whatever and they get ripped off. If you check the financial statements of the big box retailers you'll find that they have very high gross margins. They rip off the consumer on items the consumer does not know the right price. I bought a light at a local store and it didn't fit so I checked out Home Depot. The same light I paid $19.95 for at a local retailer was $36.95 at Home Depot. That's the type of ripoff that the big boxes do that ticks me off and that is what we as consumers become susceptible to.
__________________
2011 Berkshire 390bh (traded) 2018.5 Entegra Aspire 44R on order
wnytaxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2010, 11:51 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
Theberrys's Avatar


 
National RV Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,605
I think in general the economy has caused a change in attitude from most businesses. I have a 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid that just quit running with a message that read "Stop Safely Now" we had it towed to the Ford dealer and submitted the towing charge to our Ins. Company "State Farm". The bill was $97.00 and they determined they would only pay $77.00. It was the closest authorized Ford service. When I talked to the Agent he just said that's the way they do things. The policy is written "Reasonable Towing Charges", there is really no way to argue the case.

At the dealer they determined the problem was a bad crimp connector in the Hybrid Battery Harness. The car was 4K miles under the warrantee milage but three months past the time limit. Even though the Hybrid Components are warranted for Eight Years they determined the harness to the battery was not a Hybrid Component. I know the dealer called Ford and Ford made the final call. In the end the bill came to $650 which I had to pay. The car did get fixed and has worked fine since the repair. But it's pretty clear Ford has changed there attitude toward customer care.

I really have no case but I know 5 or 10 years ago both of these charges would have been handled the other way. They just figure a dollar today is more valuable than future business. In a way there correct, all companies are operating like this these days, with the exception of Fantastic Fan and a few others which still has the customer in mind.

So in the end I didn’t really get screwed, but I did find out where I stand with these two rather large companies.

Dick
__________________
1999 Tradewinds 7372 Cat 3126
Albuquerque, NM
Theberrys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2010, 07:36 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
RJay's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,589
Hi wnytaxman,
It sounds like your client was shopping for a larger refund and a compliant company that would get it for her.

This past year during tax time I called around to three different accounting firms to get a price to do my federal(only) tax returns. I made a list of what I had to file and went over it with each of the three accounts. I was told their hourly rate was between $150-200/hr. They all said essentially the same thing, bring it in and we will charge base on how long it takes us to do it. I interpreted that to mean, bring it in and we will charge base on how much we think you can afford to pay. Frustrated, I called a national chain and they told me they charge by the number of forms that are required. I went with the national chain. You would think that someone who charges $200..00/hr to do taxes would be enough of an expert to at least give a estimated range base on certain criteria. In the past I have had my taxes prepared by both accountants and tax preparers and I was surprised that the accountants, in this case, couldn't quote at least a price range.

The example you site about the light indicates there is a choice. We can pay the first price we see or call around, compare prices and get the best value, that's the american way. The situations that I'm railing against are those were we have no choice.
__________________
2007 Newmar DSDP 4023
Discovery is seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought.
If you want to see what man made go East; if you want to see what God made go West.
RJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2010, 07:53 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
RJay's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,589
Hi Dick,
Your situation describes exactly what I've been saying. You have an insurance policy you think protects you from towing charges and the insurance company makes the interpretation that perhaps in this situation your not entirely covered. Then your warranty has a time/milage requirement and the company interprets the requirement that you pay. I agree that in time past the company would have taken care of the problem under warranty. To further illustrate the point they didn't even off a compromise of splitting the cost.
__________________
2007 Newmar DSDP 4023
Discovery is seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought.
If you want to see what man made go East; if you want to see what God made go West.
RJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2010, 09:33 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Theberrys's Avatar


 
National RV Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,605
RJay

Another example. We recently bought a high end refrigerator from Electrolux and the ice maker just quit working. It's of course covered under warrantee. When we called for service they immediately said yea we know about that, we'll put the kit in the mail today. When we asked why they know about it and we didn't they apologized and said they would send a $100 debit card to compensate us for the inconvenience. All that is fine, but if we hadn't have had a problem and called for service they would have been glad to wait until after warrantee and charged us for the repair of a design error. It's like the Silent Recall I've read about on an other board for TT Tires that are no longer being made in the US but in China. Not a peep from the manufacturer about either. BTW the manufacturer is Goodyear, so it's not just the little guy trying to survive.

Dick
__________________
1999 Tradewinds 7372 Cat 3126
Albuquerque, NM
Theberrys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2010, 07:10 AM   #23
Senior Member
 
RJay's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,589
Dave,
Good point. How much better would you feel about the company if they would have included with the refrigerator a note saying they are experiencing problems with some of the ice makers used in your unit and if you experience trouble with yours to call them for an immediate replacement. But as wnytaxman points out in his post, I wonder how many people would call just to get a free ice maker.
__________________
2007 Newmar DSDP 4023
Discovery is seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought.
If you want to see what man made go East; if you want to see what God made go West.
RJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2010, 09:26 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
historyljc's Avatar
 
Tiffin Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pensacola, Florida
Posts: 5,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeyeduffer View Post
Gotta tell you I just had a completely positive experience at the Freightliner Chassis Service Center (FCSC) in Gaffney, SC. I was a walk-in standby for a 15.0k service. Their quote was almost to the penny what the final bill was. They could have charged me for several items that they reviewed and explained we did not need. Thier CSR , Pat, was super professional and made the wait very acceptable to us. I plan on going back there for service every chance I get even though it is croos country from us. Additionally, we used thier campground and hookups for four days at no additional charge. Well done Freightliner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chasfm11 View Post
. . . I went back to him and his response was "if you don't like it, don't bring your RV here." I took him at his word and have never returned. They don't need or want my business and are "doing me a favor" by working on the RV, even though they are an Oasis network dealer who is supposed to have special RV training and be considerate of RV owners. . . .
These are the reasons I make an annual trip to Gaffney to get my coach serviced. I've had the same experience as chasfm11 with our local Freightliner Oasis service center. The only service center that is owned by Freightliner is the one in Gaffney. With others, buyer beware. I must mention that I did stop at the Freightliner service center in Winnemucca, NV, for an M1 service while I was on vacation last year. They did an outstanding job for a reasonable price. I would stop there again.
__________________
Travel well, travel safe,
Jim
2006 Tiffin Phaeton - 2011 Cadillac SRX
historyljc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2010, 08:01 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Davie, Florida
Posts: 719
This just goes to offer further proof of my point. The decision to buy or not to buy is being adversely affected by a perceived unethical business climate. I do not use my credit cards anymore and have reduced the number I have to 2. If many of us do this, the negative ripple effect on the economy will continue to errode confidence in our economic future.
__________________
D in Davie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2010, 07:26 AM   #26
Senior Member
 
mrschwarz's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Texas Boomers Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 876
Send a message via Skype™ to mrschwarz
Quote:
Originally Posted by D in Davie View Post
This just goes to offer further proof of my point. The decision to buy or not to buy is being adversely affected by a perceived unethical business climate. I do not use my credit cards anymore and have reduced the number I have to 2. If many of us do this, the negative ripple effect on the economy will continue to errode confidence in our economic future.
Does that mean that in order to keep the economy healthy, we need to spend with no regard to consequences?

My company has a CEO that, when asked what he is doing to keep the stock price up, has always had the same answer. Run the business using good fundamentals. Take care of the customer and employees, manage costs, and overhead. Do everything right and the stock price takes care of itself.

Personally, I spend according to my abilities. I let the economy take care of itself.
__________________
Michael
2017 Allegro Bus 45OPP, Cummins ISL 450, Allison 3000
mrschwarz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2010, 07:35 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
Ray,IN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North America somewhere
Posts: 13,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theberrys View Post
I think in general the economy has caused a change in attitude from most businesses. I have a 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid that just quit running with a message that read "Stop Safely Now" we had it towed to the Ford dealer and submitted the towing charge to our Ins. Company "State Farm". The bill was $97.00 and they determined they would only pay $77.00. It was the closest authorized Ford service. When I talked to the Agent he just said that's the way they do things. The policy is written "Reasonable Towing Charges", there is really no way to argue the case.

At the dealer they determined the problem was a bad crimp connector in the Hybrid Battery Harness. The car was 4K miles under the warrantee milage but three months past the time limit. Even though the Hybrid Components are warranted for Eight Years they determined the harness to the battery was not a Hybrid Component. I know the dealer called Ford and Ford made the final call. In the end the bill came to $650 which I had to pay. The car did get fixed and has worked fine since the repair. But it's pretty clear Ford has changed there attitude toward customer care.

I really have no case but I know 5 or 10 years ago both of these charges would have been handled the other way. They just figure a dollar today is more valuable than future business. In a way there correct, all companies are operating like this these days, with the exception of Fantastic Fan and a few others which still has the customer in mind.

So in the end I didn’t really get screwed, but I did find out where I stand with these two rather large companies.

Dick
I would phone or write Ford national customer service department and politely request an adjustment to this bill. I was in a very similar situation with my Chevy truck 2 years ago. I phoned GM customer service, explained the entire situation, faxed them my paid bills as requested, and they said they would investigate. A few days later I got a phone call from GM customer service saying they would split the bill with me even though my truck was 3 months out of warranty.

Customer service exists to smooth the way to future sales. BTW, it was the service manager at that local Chevy dealer who suggested I phone GM customer service.
__________________
2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD, ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA 1SG, retired;PPA,Good Sam Life member,FMCA."We the people are the rightful masters of both the Congress and the Courts - not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution. "Abraham Lincoln"
Ray,IN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2010, 12:25 PM   #28
Member
 
Dragonrover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Tyler, Texas
Posts: 96
I hate seeing when businesses start padding the bill. I always see it at Auto shops. That can be one of the problems when you have workers that get paid by commission and then they will do anything to get that extra dollar from you. Its hard to find companies that won't beat around the bush when you deal with them.
__________________

__________________
2007 Tiffin Motorhomes ALLEGRO 35MH
Dragonrover is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Carrier out of business ? diandtom iRV2.com General Discussion 8 02-07-2010 08:30 PM
Plugs and Boots, Filters, and changing Codes, OH MY!! hdossett Ford Motorhome Chassis Forum 15 11-02-2009 03:10 PM
Heritage Warranty Services may be out of business. Route 66 iRV2.com General Discussion 3 08-22-2008 07:35 AM
Low-Income Individuals Achieve Self-Sufficiency Through Business Assistance DriVer New Member Check-In 2 04-07-2006 05:13 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.