Is GM the tip of the iceberg?

[radar]

Originally Posted by raineman

Tesla will end up leasing their charge stations to GM and others.

Maybe, but right now it is a very good sales tool for them. The Chevy Bolt is not a bad little car (although overpriced compared to the model 3). But what makes it a hard sell for GM is the lack of Tesla like infrastructure (Supercharger network). Tesla owners will not appreciate other brands clogging up Superchargers. Although most charging is done at home when there are a 1000 new Tesla’s per day hitting the road it’s everything Tesla can do to keep up with Supercharger demand. One advantage for Tesla is that Tesla’s can also use non Tesla DC fast charging (CCS AND Chademo depending on country). It doesn’t work the other way. If you drive a Bolt or Leaf you are stuck with other providers networks. And our experience with those networks is they are poorly maintained and not always in working order. Chargepoint and EVgo are actually pretty good and their network APP is pretty good. But nothing like Tesla.

Both Nissan and Chevy have installed some DCFC’s at their dealerships but the vast majority are only Level 2 charging and usually only accesible during business hours. And most are slower than Superchargers.

[Jay D.]

Originally Posted by wildtoad

They can make as many small electric only cars that they want, but until they have the very rapid charging infrastructure to support them, they will be a niche market, or limited to urban usage. GM is doing exactly what they need to do by eliminating brands and body styles that are not selling, or profitable. Ford has already announced a similar plan to shutter all cars except two and focus on what people are buying. I’m not sure these actions are indicative of the economy in general, just the auto industry.

I AGREE
Jay D.

[Jay D.]

Originally Posted by radar

Hmmm. There are not a lot of small electric vehicles being made, at least not in the US. Which ones are you refferring to?

Most of the Electric vehicles being made in the US are medium or large and most of them are Tesla’s. And Tesla has a pretty extensive and rapidly growing Supercharger network not to mention that the vast majority of charging is done at home (over 90 percent). I believe Tesla has the fastest selling sedan in the USA right now. I don’t mean Electric sedan, I mean any sedan. Year over year growth of electrics is showing no signs of slowing anywhere in the world. I would think GM is wise in putting more research and resources into EV’s. One of the reasons Cadillac sales are off is customers going to the Tesla model 3 or model S. Take a Cadillac for a drive and then take a Model 3 or S for a drive and it’s pretty much a no brainer.

Right now GM is producing about 2100 EV’s per month. Tesla is producing a 1000 per day and rising. . At some point somebody at GM has to take notice of that. The next 3 years will be interesting.

the Tesla has a range around 250 to 350 mi. if I take a 500 mi. overnight trip i'm going to have to find a charging station, not easy. i can jump in my Cady and gas up and cruse home. its going to be many years before this country sees adequate charging systems to serve these cars. the more electric cars the more charging stations needed.
I can see GMs reasoning, no cense building cars that won't sell.
Jay D.

[radar]

Originally Posted by Jay D.

the Tesla has a range around 250 to 350 mi. if I take a 500 mi. overnight trip i'm going to have to find a charging station, not easy. i can jump in my Cady and gas up and cruse home. its going to be many years before this country sees adequate charging systems to serve these cars. the more electric cars the more charging stations needed.
I can see GMs reasoning, no cense building cars that won't sell.
Jay D.

I hear ya. But that’s the problem. GM doesn’t have access to that supercharging system which is why they are having problems selling bolts. Tesla has the Supercharger system. No problem stopping for lunch for 40 minutes, recharging and moving on. Your 500 mile trip takes no longer than an ICE vehicle. That’s the beauty of the Supercharger system. Although the system is still growing its already quite extensive. So what does GM do? Do they just give up and watch their market get smaller and smaller as Tesla and soon BMW Volkswagen and Mercedes keep chipping away at them? I think one of the reasons Chevy is giving up on the Hybrid Volt is to concentrate on more EV development. There is no shortage of customers for the right EV’s.

Right now most of the customers that Tesla is stealing are BMW, Mercedes, Audi and Cadillac customers. But the model Y is debuting in March with production ramp up the following year. The model Y is an SUV. A whole new market to chip away at.

[MRUSA14]

The charging stations make little sense to me. Imagine if it took 40 minutes to fill your car with gas. What an inconvenience.

At that rate, how many cars can be refueled in a day at one of these stations? How many additional charging stations will be needed if sales of EV’s take off? It will be nearly impossible to have enough charging stations, even assuming that people would be willing to suffer the long recharge times.

I think electric cars are only practical if you can do your commuting or other business within the range of the car in a day, and recharge at home over night. But home charging is not feasible for many who live in apartments or park on the street. And for an extended road trip, these cars will depend on charging stations with all the previously noted drawbacks. Just not practical versus a liquid fueled vehicle.

The average driver can not or will not deal with these drawbacks. I think it will be a very long time before electrics can take a major share of the car market.

[radar]

Originally Posted by MRUSA14

The charging stations make little sense to me. Imagine if it took 40 minutes to fill your car with gas. What an inconvenience.

At that rate, how many cars can be refueled in a day at one of these stations? How many additional charging stations will be needed if sales of EV’s take off? It will be nearly impossible to have enough charging stations, even assuming that people would be willing to suffer the long recharge times.

I think electric cars are only practical if you can do your commuting or other business within the range of the car in a day, and recharge at home over night. But home charging is not feasible for many who live in apartments or park on the street. And for an extended road trip, these cars will depend on charging stations with all the previously noted drawbacks. Just not practical versus a liquid fueled vehicle.

I think it will be a very long time before electrics can take a major share of the car market.

Some valid points. But, you think differently when driving an EV. You organize the day a little different. The average length of time at a Supercharger is currently 24 minutes. Quite often Superchargers (and non Tesla DCFC’s) are co-located near restaurants, Starbucks etc. There is little lost time on longer trips as charging is often a concurrent activity. Overnight. Charging at hotels is also common and there are Apps that direct EVers to EV friendly hotels. And again, most charging is done at home. At home it takes six seconds to charge our car. 3 seconds to plug it in at night and three seconds to unplug it in the morning . I really don’t care what time it finishes charging during the night...although the car does send me an email when done). Gassing a vehicle is lost time. We spend a lot less time charging our EV’s than we ever did putting gas or diesel in our previous vehicles.

EV’s are not a panacea and don’t work for all situations in all climates etc. But to ignore the fastest growing sector of the auto industry might be a huge mistake for any of the Big three...and right now none of the three are showing as much interest as the overseas players.

[radar]

This a map indicating Supercharger coverage about 6 months ago. Its getting better all the time and its more extensive in Europe.



Not all superchargers are like this but they are getting more upscale all the time.






A half hour recharge allows for a bite to eat, a coffee, check the email etc and move on.


Superchargers have as few as 6 and as many as 40 stalls.

[dave&ginny]

Originally Posted by raineman

Unlike many, we have little debt. We are watching our neighbors use their homes like ATM's and refinancing to squeeze whatever equity they may have gained. If housing prices dip, here we go again.

Several new cars in the neighborhood in the last 2 years. The majority reflecting the trend of trucks and large SUVs.

Saving isn’t always a good idea.....

I worked and saved, but one day a doctor looked me in the eye and said cancer. That was 6 years ago last week. Now I enjoy what I’ve earned.

2 weeks ago one of my best friends died suddenly at 66 years of age. The “widow maker” got him.

Moral of my story is this....enjoy life! Have enough life insurance to cover the debt.

[Jay D.]

so what does it cost to fill up at a supercharger station.
Jay D.

[BillJinOR]

Chevy isn’t eliminating its all electric car , it’s cutting its cars.... gas cars ,impala Cruze etc The volt .. I have one ,a hybrid electric they are cutting is a hybrid that can go forever on gas generator but mostly runs on electric . Once you drive electric you won’t like going back . Most people never drive over 50 miles a day and the Volt solves ..or solved (since it’s cut ) the “drive further” problem ,but This isn’t about electric . it’s about cars , thats SEDANS. not selling. SUV and trucks are selling like crazy and since the truck in many cases is cheaper to make and sells for more profit , I understand the car companies cutting what isn’t selling .
Ford is cutting almost all its “cars “ also they just haven’t announced the closings yet

[Arch Hoagland]

Originally Posted by Jay D.

so what does it cost to fill up at a supercharger station.
Jay D.

I'm curious too.

Several of my friends can't remember to charge their cellphones so I wonder how many will forget to charge their car.

Neighbor had a Fiat electric and forgot several times.

[BillJinOR]

I think for at least a few years it’s free with purchase at least I think it used to be. I don’t know about the Tesla but I get about 3.5 miles per kilowatt the volt stores 14KW and can go 50 miles on electric so do the math on what your electric rate is for example @35 miles per gallon if electric was .14c a KW then the equivalent is what ? 1.40 a gallon ?
People develop habits ... pull in to the garage and plug in . You’ll remember after you don’t once or twice! .. it’s easy

[txcpl]

We have been on an economic growth spurt for a long long time, and cracks are beginning to appear in various areas of the economy. History has shown us that the only constant we have is change. That constant is a part of our economy as well as the climate of this earth. As a general rule, man does not like change, but changes will come and we best prepare for them, as we are pretty much powerless to stop most of these changes.

The electric vehicle definitely has a place in the transportation world. Is it the magic transportation cure-all? Only if you are selling it.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[raineman]

Originally Posted by txcpl

We have been on an economic growth spurt for a long long time, and cracks are beginning to appear in various areas of the economy. History has shown us that the only constant we have is change. That constant is a part of our economy as well as the climate of this earth. As a general rule, man does not like change, but changes will come and we best prepare for them, as we are pretty much powerless to stop most of these changes.

The electric vehicle definitely has a place in the transportation world. Is it the magic transportation cure-all? Only if you are selling it.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Agreed. House sales are also starting to slow year over year in many markets. The cracks are starting to show.