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Old 02-18-2012, 02:59 PM   #183
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Interesting discussion - about Walmart and internet change - I could not agree more. Take cell phones, look how they have changed land line companys' business. Wait a few more years and watch how sat. phones will change cell phone companies. Watch the upcomming change in computers - there will be no hard drives, it will be something like flash drives with no moving parts and unbelievable storage.
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Old 02-18-2012, 03:20 PM   #184
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As a final word on the subject.

Consider that that Walmart is the 18th largest public corporation in the world. It is the world's largest private employer. The 9th, 10th, and 11th richest persons in the USA are the Walton heirs who never worked a day in their lives.

When Walmart speaks supply chains tremble. Can't make a bicycle here for $40 off to China goes the factory. Walmart cares about one thing. Money. Doesn't care about employees except how to pay them as little as possible. Drive out competition the old Rockefeller way - come in with prices lower than your competition - drive them out of business - and then raise your prices when you are the only game in town. How to compete? Send your production to China. Same for Target, Home Depot, Lowes, or slowly die.

Sears, Ace Hardware, they got on the China bandwagon late. Will they make it?

Effect of all this is we have no choice now. No jobs and China junk. $5.00 for a 1lb box of 8d sinkers made in China at Lowes. Arrgh! Go to Home Depot - same. Go to local hardware store, man says we can't get American made nails anymore but we have China nails for $6.00 lb.

It is what it is. Defend Walmart if you must. But their business model combined with greed and America's shortsightedness is slowly, inevitably making China number 1. And Walmart helped make it all possible.

I challange you to find any USA made tools, appliances, clothing, furniture or even food nowdays. Sure there a few but far between.

We are competing in global economy and that means our standard of living has to go down or we are out of business.

Can you imagine Japan allowing Ford to build a plant in Japan, give them land and tax breaks, have Americans pay more for Fords so they are cheaper in Japan, and put Toyota on the ropes? I think not.

Yes we can shop anywhere. And those pesky unions. How dare they ask for better wages and working conditions. That's so 50's. They should be glad they have a job stocking shelves or mopping floors.

Walmart is not killing America - they already killed it. Our manufacturing base is gone. We traded it for cheap junk and lived high off the hog for a while.

Now it's time to pay the piper.

How any politician going to bring these jobs back with today's trade rules and Super Pacs? More importantly does Wall St really care if American's have jobs or are profits more important. I think you know the answer to that one...
Great thoughts..... Thanks
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Old 02-18-2012, 03:41 PM   #185
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jamesgr81,,,very well spoken! How sad but true!
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Old 02-18-2012, 04:12 PM   #186
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Another nice WalMart story:
While on the road I needed an extra length of Coax Cable. I found a Radio Shack and bought a 12 foot Coax package, made in China of course. and paid $14. On the way back to the RV Park we went by a WalMart and my wife asked me to stop because she needed a few things. I went in with her and walked over to elsctronics section and what to my surprise. There was a 15 foot package of Coax from our same friends in Chna but it was only $5.95. I ran the numbers in my head and realized I had been had by $10.
Thats a huge differance and if WalMarts competition is is going to price their stuff that much higher it will be hard to find a reason to support them.
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Old 02-18-2012, 04:41 PM   #187
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Some folk talk about the big wigs puffing cigars. If Capitalism is the best answer, why did they need/take money to bail themselves out? Live by the sword, die by the sword.
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Old 02-18-2012, 05:10 PM   #188
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Some folk talk about the big wigs puffing cigars. If Capitalism is the best answer, why did they need/take money to bail themselves out? Live by the sword, die by the sword.
When did Capitalism bail itself out?

Oh, wait, by Capitalism you mean people who puff cigars?

Or do you mean bankers and Wall Street firms who contribute huge amounts to political parties? Or the GM bailout where laws were turned upside down so the United Auto Workers (who contribute to ONE political party) became a creditor and an owner of the company? Hmmmm, as I remember it, it was politicians who actually gave away your grandchildren's future.

But hey, absolutely blame Capitalism- maybe even Occupy it! Whoo HOO!

Oops, sorry, didn't realize you weren't an American. Good thing you don't practice free enterprise "down under".
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:48 PM   #189
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When did Capitalism bail itself out?

Oh, wait, by Capitalism you mean people who puff cigars?

Or do you mean bankers and Wall Street firms who contribute huge amounts to political parties? Or the GM bailout where laws were turned upside down so the United Auto Workers (who contribute to ONE political party) became a creditor and an owner of the company? Hmmmm, as I remember it, it was politicians who actually gave away your grandchildren's future.

But hey, absolutely blame Capitalism- maybe even Occupy it! Whoo HOO!

Oops, sorry, didn't realize you weren't an American. Good thing you don't practice free enterprise "down under".
Agreed. It is not capitalism, it is our society that has lost it's values. Once the federal government was allowed to go into debt we set the tone for everyone to go into debt to get what they want now.

Instant gratification has it's price. How many kids today have a plan for retirement. Mi lost my retirement twice but I was raised to put aside 10% for the future. I am now putting 30% away to rebuild but happy that I had a buffer to fall back on durring hard times. Most of my staff put nothing into their retirment accounts and live paycheck to pay check. In 50 years where will they be?

It is not capitalism it is what our society has become. We are not invincible
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Old 02-19-2012, 11:19 AM   #190
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I have to chime in here. I am not as educated as some of you, but I have more time & experience in some areas which I will share. I am 72 yrs. young!! I watched as a child after world war ll, this nation to continue to really prosper. Rosey the riviter was no longer a house wife, she was now talented as a multi tasker. Our farthers came home from the war, and this nation really took hold with jobs. But with jobs came strong unions. Unions became too powerful. Our Govornment had price controls on goods. In the late 50's or early 60's Uncle sam said we are going to eliminate price controls, as it will be better for the consumers for compitition in the market place. We the voting public bought it hook line & sinker! In the 60's we had gas wars! Gas was cheaper than a pack of ciggs. at 20 cents a pack. I watched in the 60's as "Special Interest Groups" started the political control that they have today. Our country had steel mills in this country, ship yards built the finest war ships there was, as well as commercial ships. Oil Refineries abound our costal regions work was plentiful. I watched as the housing market was stripped of the unions with non-union workers in the 60's. Same with the plumbers & electricians loosing their jobs to non-union workers. Special enterest complained about the air quality, and at first blaming it on the auto industry, and that is where your autos are at today but have come along way. In California, we started in on the the Manufacturing industry. The steel mills closed left and right due to the restrictions that was being forced upon them in a short period of time, so raw steel went over seas, leaving only remelt factories that produced lower grade of steel like re-bar ect. Our ship yards were closing as the market place took to over seas ship builders where not only was the quality of the steel not being inspected, neither was the quality as the workers there did not have the trainiing at the time. It is still the same owners that are mostly incharge along with sharing with the country where they are being built. Remember "Ronald Regan, our President? He fired all the air traffic controlers, because the union was too strong there as well. In 1973, I had a small trucking firm with only 3 semi's, which I had a contract haul {I thought}. The same year I bought my trucks, we had our first ever Government mingled fuel shortage by the oil industries. I was buying diesel from 16 to 25 cents, depending on the state I bought it in. Nevada I paid 17 cents, but California was .25 cents mostly due to taxes. By summer of 1974 due to the claimed fuel shortage, fuel went to .75 cents plus a gallon. We were not allowed any "Surcharges. It became every load I had to haul was a loss profit load until I had to shut down. Now, I had pictures of ships lined up along the shores of California fully loaded with raw crude oil waiting to get into a port to off-load. Yep, your tax dollars was paying the ship lines what is known a durmarage charges for every day they had to anchore at sea. Pictures was taken by several groups of this and turn over to what was so called Government Athorities. What happened? Nothing! It was planned! Trucks finely started to strike back with the news and shut down every freway or toll way in America. Our honest news industry, reported the shut down, but also reported that the West Coast wasn't shut down and they were working, and VisaVersa for the east coast. Not like today where internet could set up the line of communications. Amercia would have been without good within 10 days if it had continued. I could go on with many other stories, but know who your special Interests groups are! Yes these are the fine cigar smokers that own and control about everything we touch. WalMart buys goods that you want to buy. Otherwise they couldn't sell them. A poster stated about the Coax he bought is an example. We the people have the right to control, but we don't. We could set term limits, but we as a whole won't suport each other to get it on the ballot. I could continue on further, but I believe others can fill in the blanks I didn't! Since i am recovering from major surgery, I can't think of all I would like to sya, but enough for you to continue on with the topic.
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Old 02-19-2012, 11:29 AM   #191
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Some folk talk about the big wigs puffing cigars. If Capitalism is the best answer, why did they need/take money to bail themselves out? Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Hmm, you seem to be drawing a conclusion from a question where your seeking an answer.
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Old 02-19-2012, 12:07 PM   #192
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Some folks keep blaming the banks for the mortgage crisis. As far as I know nobody has shown that any major bank lured anyone to buy a house. See if I have this right. Someone wants to but a house so they go see a real estate agent (perhaps a neighbor) who almost always shows them houses the agent knows they can not afford. I think this is called selling up. The prospective buyer likes what they see (of course) and signs a contract to buy the house, most likely before ever talking to a bank. Agent handles getting "Someone" to finance the house and in this day and age probably a mortgage broker who will have no skin in the game as they will sell the mortgage to a bank within hours of the closing. Many of these brokers offer "No Doc" and nothing down loans which means the buyer doesn't really have to prove they can afford the house, or perhaps that they actually have income, and clearly have no thing invested. The broker has no vested interest in either the property or if the buyer can afford the house. So now we have at least two parties involved in the transaction that don't care what happens after the sale. Now the agent contacts a closing attorney who also has no vested interest in the property, just is there to make sure all the paperwork is properly executed and as far as I know has no fiduciary duties to assure the buyer can afford the property. So now we are up the three parties that just don't care.

So now the mortgage broker packages up the loan and sells it to a bank who really doesn't want it, and only accepts it because good old uncle sam (Thank you Barney Frank, and the reat of them) has put pressure on the banks to take loans from people who can't afford them. So the bank now has lots of these potentially bad loans and put them all together in a box and sells this pandoras box to another bank or investment house.

All along the buyer knows he can't afford it, has nothing invested in it, and treats the place like an apartment. When times get tough they simply move out or wait to be evicted and play the victim card.

Did the banks do anything wrong in the mortgage process/meldown? I suspect so. But there is more than enough evidence that those fine friendly folks in washington facilitated the problem, a total lack of personal responsibility on the buyers part, and noone involved to make sure the buyer could afford the house. But it's always easier to blame the banks as it makes good fodder for campaign speeches.

Just an opinion...
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Old 02-19-2012, 12:32 PM   #193
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Sorry if I offended. My post was meant to imply that Capitalism had been taken over by the "big cigar puffers" and had lost its true ideology. If the market place is never wrong, there should not have been a bailout. And one a slightly different note how does any CEO get to be worth $5 million in wages? Is the job that specialized? But then I guess some sports people get wages that are similar...
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Old 02-19-2012, 05:19 PM   #194
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Hipshot,,,,

Very True........
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Originally Posted by wildtoad View Post
Some folks keep blaming the banks for the mortgage crisis. As far as I know nobody has shown that any major bank lured anyone to buy a house. See if I have this right. Someone wants to but a house so they go see a real estate agent (perhaps a neighbor) who almost always shows them houses the agent knows they can not afford. I think this is called selling up. The prospective buyer likes what they see (of course) and signs a contract to buy the house, most likely before ever talking to a bank. Agent handles getting "Someone" to finance the house and in this day and age probably a mortgage broker who will have no skin in the game as they will sell the mortgage to a bank within hours of the closing. Many of these brokers offer "No Doc" and nothing down loans which means the buyer doesn't really have to prove they can afford the house, or perhaps that they actually have income, and clearly have no thing invested. The broker has no vested interest in either the property or if the buyer can afford the house. So now we have at least two parties involved in the transaction that don't care what happens after the sale. Now the agent contacts a closing attorney who also has no vested interest in the property, just is there to make sure all the paperwork is properly executed and as far as I know has no fiduciary duties to assure the buyer can afford the property. So now we are up the three parties that just don't care.

So now the mortgage broker packages up the loan and sells it to a bank who really doesn't want it, and only accepts it because good old uncle sam (Thank you Barney Frank, and the reat of them) has put pressure on the banks to take loans from people who can't afford them. So the bank now has lots of these potentially bad loans and put them all together in a box and sells this pandoras box to another bank or investment house.

All along the buyer knows he can't afford it, has nothing invested in it, and treats the place like an apartment. When times get tough they simply move out or wait to be evicted and play the victim card.

Did the banks do anything wrong in the mortgage process/meldown? I suspect so. But there is more than enough evidence that those fine friendly folks in washington facilitated the problem, a total lack of personal responsibility on the buyers part, and noone involved to make sure the buyer could afford the house. But it's always easier to blame the banks as it makes good fodder for campaign speeches.

Just an opinion...
If remember correctly the Too Big to Fail big boy banks took the worthless mortgages (which they knew were worthless) and packaged them as AAA securities, then sold them to their clients (customers) with the knowledge that they would not be re-payed. Now that's unethical to start with, then they bought those nasty credit default swaps, to buy insurance on securities they didn't own any longer ( seems unethical to me) then when the whole thing collapses they collect a profit from the failure (again seems unethical). Now the insurance companies that sold the credit default swaps go bankrupt, they get bailed out so they can pay claims, to banks that didn't suffer any loss but our pension plans and 401s that bought the worthless securities didn't get bailed out. So who screwed the pooch worse, the folks that were lead to believe the value of the real estate would go up forever, or the bankers and speculators that made fortunes?
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Old 02-19-2012, 07:15 PM   #195
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If remember correctly the Too Big to Fail big boy banks took the worthless mortgages (which they knew were worthless) and packaged them as AAA securities, then sold them to their clients (customers) with the knowledge that they would not be re-payed. Now that's unethical to start with, then they bought those nasty credit default swaps, to buy insurance on securities they didn't own any longer ( seems unethical to me) then when the whole thing collapses they collect a profit from the failure (again seems unethical). Now the insurance companies that sold the credit default swaps go bankrupt, they get bailed out so they can pay claims, to banks that didn't suffer any loss but our pension plans and 401s that bought the worthless securities didn't get bailed out. So who screwed the pooch worse, the folks that were lead to believe the value of the real estate would go up forever, or the bankers and speculators that made fortunes?
Credit default swap.... If you as an investor fell for this then shame on you.. Just as Madoff keep telling people to keep giving him money... some did. They mortgaged their paid off homes in search of unrealistic and made up profits. Our capitalistic system is built on smoke and mirrors... Those with the most toys ($$$'s) will always win... JMO ... D
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Old 02-19-2012, 09:46 PM   #196
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Credit default swap.... If you as an investor fell for this then shame on you.. Just as Madoff keep telling people to keep giving him money... some did. They mortgaged their paid off homes in search of unrealistic and made up profits. Our capitalistic system is built on smoke and mirrors... Those with the most toys ($$$'s) will always win... JMO ... D
Dickson, many very sophisticated investors fell for that smoke and mirrors. As they say, if it sounds too good to be true it probably is.
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