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Old 09-22-2012, 07:56 PM   #267
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I built one company that employed 45 and then started a second that employed another 30. I developed software and tools then trained staff to be software testers. I employed 80% of my staff through the department of rehabilitative service. It was an opportunity to develop skilled workers from capable employees that society had given up on. Unfortunately 4 years with each company and I could not compete with India or China.

I don't know how manufacturers can compete.
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Old 09-22-2012, 09:08 PM   #268
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Jobs

Well, WalMart has created tens of thousands of jobs....in China. It has also led to the loss of tens of thousands of jobs here in the US by forcing production offshore.

Whether I personally created jobs is not the issue. By my power as a consumer I create jobs by buying things, unfortunately the jobs I now support are in China. By choice I never shop at WalMart.

WalMart certainly has many low wage employees and supports the container facilities at the ports, trucking. etc

Eventually, there will be very little choice once these giant monopolies stifle competition. Only a few big box stores, a few supermarkets, a few foriegn cars (once Detroit is finally shuttered), and the odd specialty store.

There is something wrong with things when Americans cheer when the greatest industrial center in the world, Detroit, and the worlds largest corporations, succumb to unfair competition and collapse. We have given up so many things, the greatest consumer electronics industry, aerospace, furniture, textiles, machine tools, computer and microchips, cellular phones, and the list goes on.

Watch old movies, every car on the road is American. All the things of our youth, the porcelain finished appliances, the chrome plated toasters, Levi's, the heavy furniture, all have been replaced with cheap imitations of plastic and tinny metal. This is what WalMart, Lowe's, Target, Home Depot, and Hyundai have brought us.

For myself, it saddens me to see what what we have wrought. Sure the CEO's are happy when profits go up as factories and factories are shut down. Wall St is happy as stock prices rise and investors reap the profits. But how does this benefit the country as a whole?

The Oakland Bay Bridge, is being rehabilitated at huge taxpayer expense. And the company that is doing it...Chinese using steel from Shanghai.

Our children and grandchildren will have to get on using what we have built and then let decay.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:18 AM   #269
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While we like to blame the WalMarts, Home Depts & other companies, you need to look where all the regulations that allowed these companies to do this busness in out sourcing China & other countries. It started long before some of you were born. Lots of American businesses were born in the 1930's due to the war erea, and escalated up into the 1950's. Tax dollars rebuilt Japan, and parts of Germany. Then our Government set regulations to do business with these overseas companies. Japan started off with mostly trinkets marked "Made in occupied Japan". If you don't believe American business men wasn't involved, and profiteering from this, think again. And we have been doing this ever since for other countries also at tax payers expense. But we were working, as jobs were plentiful. We had steel plants, ship building, best shoes & textilies, as well as other industries that manufactured "American Goods". It was a lot of your "American businessmen" that invested in these offshore companies. They hired "lobbiest to allow legislation. Then we also had the "Do Gooder" special intrests groups, in the late 50's that cried "Air Poullution" ( yes smog was bad) & we first picked on the auto industries. I was forced to buy a kit in the early 60's called a "Smog Reduction Kit) that had a instruction booklet, a sticker that went on your windshield that said you complied ( meaning you bought the stupid kit) and your timing was reduced on your car. Cost $25. bucks. Then special intrest hit the steel industry and was attacked & slowly closed ( The Government put such harsh regulations on a short period of time, industry could not comply at such a large cost) so they closed. Ship building closed due to costs & delays in getting materials sent to this country, so the business went to where the supply was. "Overseas"!! I could go on, but the bottom line it is your Government that set all the laws and regulations allowing the "Fair Trade Practise regulations" and who is investing in these companies? I leave that to your amagine!!
Want it cured? Vote all those old farts out of Washington, force laws to stand on it's own merit, force legislation to repeal some of these damaging laws.
OOPS, i COULD GO ON, BUT i THINK YOU SHOULD BE GETTING THE iDEA BY NOW!!
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:34 AM   #270
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I do not want to write a Book on Walmart. In my 73 years I have seen it all;;; And Walmart Is NOT the problem... In 1962 I worked for .50 Cents an hour The going hourly wage was $2.50 I worked hard got Married In 1963 My wife made $2.50 PH; I made $2.00 PH. We have started several Business venturs. Own 4 huoses In the Seattle area 340 achers Of land in ND> nothing has been given to us. we worked hard. I have had People come to my shop when I was paying $18.50 per hour and ask me if I payed Prieum If I did they would work... I Is not walmart that is the problem IT is the greedy worker that thinks he has to make as much or more then the next person. He needs to cut back , own a car that is old/dependable. drink cheeper beer the list goes on and on. I am happy for/that there is a Walmart Maybe the greedy young people looking for work will realize only they can Fix this Badly broken problem;;; Life is good
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:55 AM   #271
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Bachler I will agree that Americans will see a shrinking of the middle class as wages and benefits fall to compete with cheap foriegn labor.

I don't believe for one minute that "government regulations" has been totally responsible for the loss of jobs.

First, the US laws were written by lawyers who serve at the pleasure of the big businesses and lobbyists who put them there. They created the trade laws and tariffs that allow the dumping of steel, tires, computer chips, whatever. Try and place an import duty on appliances and industry will have their legislators beat it down every time.

Second, the main reason jobs have moved offshore is simply wages. Will you work all day in a factory for $3.00? No way we can compete unless our standard of living falls.

Last, the avoidance of regulations by US companies is whose fault? No doubt it is cheaper to pollute the air and water in China than to comply in the US. It is a definite edge China has on American manufacturing. Is this right? No chance of getting any ban on these products as the the business lobby will beat that idea down in a heartbeat.

Manufacturing in America is right where big business and and Wall St wants it. In China. No labor problems, work cheap, and poison their own country. Profits roll in and Americans buy this cheap imported junk.
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:03 AM   #272
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Bachler I will agree that Americans will see a shrinking of the middle class as wages and benefits fall to compete with cheap foriegn labor.

I don't believe for one minute that "government regulations" has been totally responsible for the loss of jobs.

First, the US laws were written by lawyers who serve at the pleasure of the big businesses and lobbyists who put them there. They created the trade laws and tariffs that allow the dumping of steel, tires, computer chips, whatever. Try and place an import duty on appliances and industry will have their legislators beat it down every time.

Second, the main reason jobs have moved offshore is simply wages. Will you work all day in a factory for $3.00? No way we can compete unless our standard of living falls.

Last, the avoidance of regulations by US companies is whose fault? No doubt it is cheaper to pollute the air and water in China than to comply in the US. It is a definite edge China has on American manufacturing. Is this right? No chance of getting any ban on these products as the the business lobby will beat that idea down in a heartbeat.

Manufacturing in America is right where big business and and Wall St wants it. In China. No labor problems, work cheap, and poison their own country. Profits roll in and Americans buy this cheap imported junk.
IMHO, this is the sad truth. There's no getting the toothpaste back in the tube now that globalization is upon us. I'm sure there are many things we can do to level the playing field with legislation but I also believe that the quality of goods from China will improve. Remember when "Made in Japan" used to mean junk?

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Old 09-23-2012, 04:57 PM   #273
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Last week WE bought a Half side of Pork Ground some of it up made Sausage; Pickled the Shoulder and ham. smoked some bacon. Made some head cheeze. It is all good... I paid $1.26 Per Lb. hanging weight. The Sausage If bought at a Butcher shop would Have been about $5.00 per lb. .. We can all be Conservitave And learn to do things ourselves, Or do without. And I am so sick of hearing some Jerk saying YAH you got it easy You know how to do it Or you got this or that. WE had a party over Labor day with 20 motorhomes at our place. It cost us a bit. We enjoy doing it. And we don't have it easy we WORKED for it. and did not have some union screw us out of it and drive the End product prices up to the point that it is cheeper to make them in CHINA;; Wake up People... Life is good..
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Old 09-23-2012, 05:51 PM   #274
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Last week WE bought a Half side of Pork Ground some of it up made Sausage; Pickled the Shoulder and ham. smoked some bacon. Made some head cheeze. It is all good... I paid $1.26 Per Lb. hanging weight. The Sausage If bought at a Butcher shop would Have been about $5.00 per lb. .. We can all be Conservitave And learn to do things ourselves, Or do without. And I am so sick of hearing some Jerk saying YAH you got it easy You know how to do it Or you got this or that. WE had a party over Labor day with 20 motorhomes at our place. It cost us a bit. We enjoy doing it.
I guess our invite was lost in the mail or we missed picking it up when we were last Wally-Docking. I used to make Salami but lost the cold room to a previous entity. Great being able to do things for yourself, isn't it?
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:09 PM   #275
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My ex brother-in-law was a die-hard teamster truck driver. He made real real good money in the 60's driving toilet paper from CA to WA, taking only runs when he felt like it. Every few years they went on strike to get more money until finally Crown Zellerbach shut down the plant. He had to work 3 jobs to make same money. So if we want to get rid of Wally World and those nasty foreign cars made in the USA lets force them to unionize, they will be gone in a flash.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:56 PM   #276
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I was a teamster also! I also had to work for nonunion companies. In one case, I had not slept in 80 hours of working. I came into the yard expecting to go home, but was dispatched right back out. After telling the dispatcher I was too tired to make the run tonight, I was told to clean out my truck, he had a fresh driver waiting. While you cry unions, my Uncle died in a non-union coal mine many years back due to the non union rules. They owned the housing you lived in, they had the store you bought your goods at, and your paycheck never was enough to pay the bills. So due to unions, you non union people benifited from it as well, as your employer didn't want the shop in a union, so they competed with better conditions so you wouldn't vote the unions in. It's only been in the last several years unions got out of hand in thier bargining with greed, but lets not forget who's demands were met to retify a contract. It was the workers!! And who paid the the raises? The consumers of the goods.
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:22 PM   #277
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Rimscoord: You forgot to mention some of the inviormentalist & EPA that helped to shut down some plants. My latter years I worked for ALCOA in Vernon, Ca. where our sewers were plugged and a monitor was placed in line. The EPA flew over in helicopters several times a day monitoring the stacks coming out for the ingot foundry portion and across the lot to the forging department checking air quality, and down the street to Bethlaham Steel. Bethlaham Steel where a friend worked was shut down 90 days after the company spent 12 million dollars converting the furnases to all ectric and installed scrubbers to the stacks due to EPA, not unions!! The fines shut them down. As I drove by them on my way home from work, I did not see any smoke coming from thier stack or fumes being emitted.
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:40 PM   #278
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WalMart is successful because consumers have made them the giant that they are. Mom & Pop stores didn't survive for the same reason, consumers. Now I'm no flag waver for WalMart but we really need to look at ourselves for their success.
You are exactly correct. Walmart is not the problem. They only supply what the American consumer wants.
To find the problem, just look in the mirror! WE ARE THE PROBLEM! We have found the enemy and they be US.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:02 PM   #279
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[QUOTE=akadeadeye;1072322]Of course. Walmart is representative of the old evil free market capitalism that made this country great.

Hang'em high! Tax 100% of their profits. Throw them to the dogs. Marxism is the way to go. You bet.

The same with Home Depot. They ran all the mom and pop hardware stores out of business didn't they? Hang'em high! Tax 100% of their profits. Take away their citizenship. Capitalism just doesn't work. Bring back Karl Marx. Come on socialism. Down with Walmart, Home Depot.................let's see,.........who's next.........I know, McDonald's, Burger King......what about all those mom and pop burger joints they ran out of business? Let's see, who else in the business world can we diss? How about.....................and....................a nd.....................

I have the same sentiments...it is amazing how worked up some people get about Wal-Mart...if it was Z-Mart they would be irate about them...in other words, whoever is successful gets criticized...

We seek out Wal-Marts wherever we go...we shop there..sometimes we eat there..sometimes we stay in their parking lots in our RV....

That doesn't mean everyone should....goodness, they are crowded enough now without having everybody shopping there...
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:56 PM   #280
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I thought unions would be hot button. That is why I stuck to wages, as working conditions and safety are another issue altogether. So are environmental, social, international issues. All these things can affect profit but all too often the number one thing is employee costs. That is one of the main drivers of mechanization increasing employee productivity and decreasing the need for people. We can sit and blame everyone else but the bottom line is that business is in the business of making money period. California and American Air Lines cannot make money (or stay with a budget anyway) due to personnel costs and when they try and fix that, the unions bock the way. So town after town and AAL have gone bankrupt. So would have Chrysler and GM without a taxpayer bailout.
I listen here to complaint after complaint about new motor home problems and all the hassle of going back to the dealer to fix this or that (including me). I remember when we bought new American cars in the 50's, 60's, and 70's - we/I would make lists of things that needed corrected. No longer, competition has made auto manufacturers tighten up. My last 6 cars required no fixes. Remember when Chrysler almost went under before, and their big advertisement gimmick was how much better their quality control was - why not before that?. My point is business makes money, that is all - profit/loss/cost. All the social and political considerations are huey, no profit NO BUSINESS. So if unions, EPA, UN, Congress, States, or lack of consumers hurt profits, poof - business gone. Wal-Mart did not kill mom and pop stores. Mom and Pop stores cannot compete in the modern world with anyone unless they can find a way to make profit. And we are in a global economy so we had best find a way to work within it.
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