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Old 10-05-2012, 08:52 PM   #407
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Henry Ford paid his workers a fair wage, they could afford what they made. We are now in a race to the bottom, Walmart employees can't afford to shop anywhere else.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:04 PM   #408
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I don't think the issue is the WalMart employees. They are working and some may make a decent wage. Anyone working is better off than unemployed.

The issue still is the WalMart business model. Although Sam Walton had a buy American theme for awhile it soon became so powerful it could dictate the cost of goods produced.

Wal Mart is so large that it can make or break any major corporation. If they cannot produce goods at the price level Walmart demands they are out of business.

Maytag decides to move all production to China to be able to supply Walmart demands. Close all factories, eliminate those pesky workers and make more money than ever. This is a story being repeated over and over in all industries.

Carly Fiorina lost her bid for office in a backlash against her making millions of dollars by sending Hewlitt Packard jobs to China. In January 2004, at a meeting to "head off rising protectionist sentiment in Congress," Fiorina said: "There is no job that is America's God-given right anymore. We have to compete for jobs as a nation."

This is the crux of the argument - is it better to close all our factories, with the consequent loss of millions of jobs, to enjoy lower prices (albeit for mostly inferior junk) and create a few retailing monopolies while the small business are crushed?

Do we care that the products are inferior, that the Chinese have no product liability concerns, that they are poisoning their lands, that they have abused trade laws and kept their currency devalued to give them a competitive advantage?

More importanly do we care that as a country we do not control our own destiny any more? So many companies foriegn owned ...even Budweiser beer. So much debt owed to China to finance wars for seemingly ungrateful peoples. That if war broke out we could not even produce enough steel, semiconductors, rubber etc, because we don't have the ability to even make thse items anymore.

Maybe we should admit defeat and stop attempting to make cars, motorcycles, pianos, whatever. Just let the Japanese, Germans, Koreans, French takeover.

The question remains. How is all of this good for America and what does it mean for the future?
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Old 10-06-2012, 01:22 AM   #409
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Have any of you gone food shopping lately? My wife went yesterday and spent $324 which is for just 2 people for 2 weeks.
Shes obviously not a coupon clipper
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:44 AM   #410
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Several years ago I met a guy who started a t-shirt business in NY and had 30~40 sewing machines running constantly.

He then went to WalMart to wholesale his t-shirts to WalMart. At first he was quite successful as WalMart was the majority of his business.

However, from time to time after that WalMart told him if they were going to continue selling his t-shirts, he would would have to cut his price that WalMart paid to him.

It didn't take long before he had to close the NY factory and go overseas to find cheaper material and labor. Either that or go out of business.

His moral of the story was to never be a WalMart supplier.
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:09 AM   #411
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Do we care that the products are inferior, that the Chinese have no product liability concerns, that they are poisoning their lands, that they have abused trade laws and kept their currency devalued to give them a competitive advantage?

More importanly do we care that as a country we do not control our own destiny any more? So many companies foriegn owned ...even Budweiser beer. So much debt owed to China to finance wars for seemingly ungrateful peoples. That if war broke out we could not even produce enough steel, semiconductors, rubber etc, because we don't have the ability to even make thse items anymore.

Maybe we should admit defeat and stop attempting to make cars, motorcycles, pianos, whatever. Just let the Japanese, Germans, Koreans, French takeover.

The question remains. How is all of this good for America and what does it mean for the future?
Gotta disagree about controlling our own future because frankly we DO control our own future. I choose where to spend my dollars - sometimes at Wally World most of the time not.

The USA government produces LOTS of materials for the 'war machine' - just look to the state of Texas where most of the ammunition and retrofitting of Hummers occurs.

Of the contries you listed only the Koreans have more production capacity than the US - maybe the Germans but they're making more high-tech stuff then we can afford while the French are ...well they're French

Wal-Mart is ruthless in how they do business and because of that they are successful. Microsoft is the same way in the PC world but do you hear anyone crying that Microsoft is killing America? What about Exxon Mobil and their BILLIONS of yearly profits? Does anyone think that THEY are killing America?

Toughen up people, stop making excuses and let's pull together. America is great and once we stop belly aching and units there's nothing this contry can't do.

Except agree on anything to do with Wal-Mart.....
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:09 AM   #412
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......OK, no one is suppose to buy from Wal-Mart but then they are bad because a business who sold to Wal-Mart had to go off shore due to dealing with Wal-Mart. So if he quits selling to Wal-Mart and sells to stores that are not in an areas where Wal-Mart is not he can bring the jobs back to the US... ... problem solved.
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:59 AM   #413
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When Sam had the "Made in the USA" thing going WE as the buying populace could have kept that going. We wanted a "better" price and therefor WE bought the junk from overseas. We the people hold the future of our country, if we buy OUR products we as a country will prosper. If we continue to buy the foreign products we as a country will surely fall. No politics involved.
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:05 AM   #414
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So Walmart is the reason Maytag shipped jobs overseas? Not our free trade agreements, not globalization? So store X imports washing machines made in Korea (just an example) by a Korean company that sells for less than the wholesale cost of a U.S. made Maytag. What does Maytag do? Find a way to cut it's cost or continue to sell at a higher price extolling the value? For commodities that would be a losing proposition. So if Maytag didn't go overseas not only would the local workers be unemployed, all the 401k's, pension funds, retirements plans that contained Maytag stock would take a hit too as the company goes belly up.

Global competition, tax policies, worker compensation costs have all led to companies finding alternate sources of manufacturing. Walmart's size and price pressure may be a factor but not the main reason for shipping jobs overseas.
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:27 AM   #415
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Back in 1947, I was 9 years old, my step dad told me a fact I didn't understand at the time. He explained it this way, speaking of the "Birds & Bee's". Workers will never get rich, as the corperate companies needs workers. But we must supply our workers with enough income to survive so they don't become sick & die. Like the bee's, they have lots of workers to gather the pollen to make honey. We the workers wanted more, so we wanted raises so we could have more. As we got more, so did the companies because they had to raise thier prices. So in the end, we really didn't gain that much over time. Who did gain was dear old Uncle Sam. Lets say, we paid 25% in taxes. I started working for less than a dollar an hour, but I am rounding it off at this time. If you made a dollar per hour and you tax burden was 25% (not including other taxes) you would net .75 cents. Yet our families survived, and mom stayed home. chevy's were about $950.00 dollars, a grocery bill was $15. to $20. dollars depending on the family. I won't go into the other goods, like shoes % clothes. So now, same tax burdon of 25% @ $20.00, not including the other ductions (ssi &ect) You just lost $5. per hour in taxes, and you cost of living went up as well. If you make $7.50 per hour, WalMart shopping mighty good. No, they don't own motor homes and such, but there are people that make out well with a motorhome. I know a nurse that travels with hers all over where there is a nurse shortage, because she is a temporary, she make out well.
I think the moral of the story is, we will spend what we make unless a wise investor. But I also lost a lot of money when I was talked into the 401K plan from my employer. So it's not Walmart, it's we the people that do unto us!
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:54 AM   #416
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We can

We can compete if we work like the Chinese...

Foxconn is Apple Inc.'s largest supplier and makes iPhones, iPads and other Apple devices at massive facilities that resemble small cities. The Taiwanese company has been criticized after reports of dangerous working conditions and suicides, and it was subject to a sweeping audit this year that was backed by Apple.
It was unclear whether the work stoppage would significantly affect iPhone 5 shipments. Apple didn't return a call or reply to an email seeking additional details and comment.
China Labor Watch said 3,000 to 4,000 people walked off the job, most of them workers from the on-site quality control line.
"It was reported that factory management and Apple, despite design defects, raised strict quality demands on workers, including indentations standards of 0.02mm and demands related to scratches on frames and back covers," the group said. "On top of this, they were not permitted to have a vacation during the holiday. This combination of factors led to the strike."
Quality control inspectors were reportedly "beat up multiple times by workers" during several fights that led to hospitalizations, the organization said.

Kind of like the good old days in America at the turn of the 20th century.
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Old 10-06-2012, 08:00 PM   #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Route 66 View Post
Several years ago I met a guy who started a t-shirt business in NY and had 30~40 sewing machines running constantly.

He then went to WalMart to wholesale his t-shirts to WalMart. At first he was quite successful as WalMart was the majority of his business.

However, from time to time after that WalMart told him if they were going to continue selling his t-shirts, he would would have to cut his price that WalMart paid to him.

It didn't take long before he had to close the NY factory and go overseas to find cheaper material and labor. Either that or go out of business.

His moral of the story was to never be a WalMart supplier.
Did his business survive or did he become one of the 47%'rs
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Old 10-06-2012, 11:42 PM   #418
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Gotta disagree about controlling our own future because frankly we DO control our own future. I choose where to spend my dollars - sometimes at Wally World most of the time not.

The USA government produces LOTS of materials for the 'war machine' - just look to the state of Texas where most of the ammunition and retrofitting of Hummers occurs.

Of the contries you listed only the Koreans have more production capacity than the US - maybe the Germans but they're making more high-tech stuff then we can afford while the French are ...well they're French

Wal-Mart is ruthless in how they do business and because of that they are successful. Microsoft is the same way in the PC world but do you hear anyone crying that Microsoft is killing America? What about Exxon Mobil and their BILLIONS of yearly profits? Does anyone think that THEY are killing America?

Toughen up people, stop making excuses and let's pull together. America is great and once we stop belly aching and units there's nothing this contry can't do.

Except agree on anything to do with Wal-Mart.....
Very good post! Truth be known only reason they pick on wmt and not other company's mentioned is they are union and walmart is not. And the fact that they cannot stomach is that the associates do not want a union. Walmart don't hold a gun or force anyone to work for them! If people would check on the FACTS themselves about wages,insurance,work schedules etc. and not take the union newsletter to heart they would have a different view,but then again maybe not.This is America and GOD BLESS THE USA!!
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Old 10-07-2012, 05:51 AM   #419
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Don't know, never saw him again, but he flew to Asia frequently to keep costs under control.

He said his mistake was doing all of his business with Walmart and he would never do that again.

If he stopped doing business with Walmart, he would essentially have to go out of business and try to start a new business.

I'm not saying Walmart is good or bad, just relaying one man's story.

There are certain things I buy at Walmart and certain things I do not.

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Did his business survive or did he become one of the 47%'rs
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Old 10-07-2012, 03:44 PM   #420
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Very good post! Truth be known only reason they pick on wmt and not other company's mentioned is they are union and walmart is not. And the fact that they cannot stomach is that the associates do not want a union. Walmart don't hold a gun or force anyone to work for them! If people would check on the FACTS themselves about wages,insurance,work schedules etc. and not take the union newsletter to heart they would have a different view,but then again maybe not.This is America and GOD BLESS THE USA!!
Let me guess you owned a business that had problems with unions. Unions are a good thing, not all union workers or leaders are honest, as are not all business owners. JMO
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