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Old 10-07-2012, 04:12 PM   #421
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Let me guess you owned a business that had problems with unions. Unions are a good thing, not all union workers or leaders are honest, as are not all business owners. JMO
Bzzz Wrong again-Strike 1. I will agree that most unions are a good thing and so are their members. It's the fanatical ones that bring em down. JMO
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:15 PM   #422
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Henry Ford paid his workers a fair wage, they could afford what they made. We are now in a race to the bottom, Walmart employees can't afford to shop anywhere else.
Henry Ford paid his workers what he HAD to pay them. No one at that time knew how to make an automobile. There wasn't a market for his product, I mean imagine that a horseless carriage, what idiot would want one of those?

Today Ford pays wages that are in line with those at GM and Mercedes, etc., but they would pay LESS if they could. In the 21st century American companies compete not only with other American companies they are competing with India, China, the Phillipians and most recently Africian countries.

If people have a problem with what they are paid get skills or education and get a better job - there are plenty out there.
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Old 10-07-2012, 05:19 PM   #423
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Bzzz Wrong again-Strike 1. I will agree that most unions are a good thing and so are their members. It's the fanatical ones that bring em down. JMO
Which part am I wrong about? Please define fanatic. I've already said not all the folks involved with Unions are trustworthy, I know that from personal experience.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:42 PM   #424
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That is so true and accurate! The suckers are not the people who worked and Earned the benefits the govt. has to offer they are the ones in front of me at the Wal-Mart the other day that was paying with their govt provided food card that tried to buy dog food but was rejected for not being necessary essentials so she runs back and grabs several pounds of ground beef Fido will eat good!! That is who the suckers are and WE are paying for all of it. By the way to stay on topic I followed them out but could not see her vehichle because some RV's were parked in the way with slides out and gennys running
Oh now I am going to jump ahead again, I hate it when I do that...

Military personnel need to do TWENTY YEARS to get a dime in retirement. I don't even think returning military are eledgeable for unemployment!!!

Now our politians... in most states and the federal government, they need to "WORK" 30 days to be eligible for a lifetime pension...
Does anyone here see the problem?
It's not walmart....
It's a CAREER politician
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:43 PM   #425
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I'm not crazy about Unions because I've had bad experience with them throughout my working life. I do admit, that they are the only thing standing in the way of workers being housed in dormitories like China.

Unions did have an important part in building this country and the middle class, but they are also responsible for the sense of "entitlement" that hurt our manufacturing
And made American products so pricey. It was fine for us until Globalization happened. For unions to be effective, they will have to globalize.
now this.... I could not say it any better...
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:46 PM   #426
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Honestly.
I think Wal-Mart is a symptom not the disease.
I can not, for the most part, buy something that I do not look it over and say they could have..... and made it a little more expensive but a lot better. But there are fewer people willing to pay a little more. Some of it is companies wanting to squeeze more profit (demanded by the share holders) out of a product but many are trying to get it to the price people want to pay.
A example was years ago when a lady walked into a natural gas appliance store (I knew the sakes man) she was commenting on how much more it was in this store than the competition. The truth came out when I asked, "How many years are you required to buy gas from them?" Answer 2. The other company had the most expensive gas.
How does it go... you can pay me now or pay me later... we are getting to the point of later in the US.
All the above is my opinion, everyone has their own.
Walmart is neither the symptom, nor the disease. Walmart is a successful American company, providing lots of things that many Americans seem to want to buy, at prices they can afford to pay, while providing jobs for a great many Americans willing to work for them.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:52 PM   #427
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My daddy was a union president and a vet of ww2 and Korea. I am also a veteran. Blanket statements like yours only serve to divide us as a nation. Yea, I consider myself a LIBERAL. It is a badge of honor to me. I love and am proud of this great nation. Not trying to get TOO political? You equated being " liberal" with being( not proud, ashamed?) of America. There are plenty of forums for that kind of hate speech. I'm here to share and learn about this great RVing lifestyle, not to listen to crap I thought was not part of this site. And yes sir, as a former LEO, I too love my guns and also an NRA member. Have an interesting life.
and while I am a conservative, and believe that Americans will always find a way, and totally believe we don't need government to show us that way...
I also have a hard time with drunk rednecks bearing arms...
And an equally tough time with innocent babies starving in the streets.

It's not a line in the sand...

It's AMERICANS believing in the land of opportunity, believing in freedom, while at the same time also believing in the right to work and the safety net of public programs for education as well as welfare for those who otherwise would simply fail.

sorry rt66, it's been a good multiple margarita lunch...
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:56 PM   #428
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Indonesia Strike: Millions Of Factory Workers Walk Off The Job In Protest

So even the sweat shop workers are getting fed up
oh jeez... i shouldn't read this crap while enjoying a multiple margarita lunch... (sorry rt66...)

we do live in a world economy.
We DON'T have the right to "get ours" at the expense of "them"

And the changes we are going thru in America will only end when they get they'es, and we back it down a notch or 6.
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:02 PM   #429
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I will never shop at Wal-Mart for any reason. A company that forces it people to work overtime without pay, that fires anyone trying to organize for collective bargaining, that fails to provide a living wage, that fails to provide medical care, that operates factories with slave labor overseas, is not the kind of organization I want to support with my money.

When Wal-Mart opens a store in a small town it puts out of business companies that are locally owned and pay employees a living wage and provide health insurance. When Wal-Mart decimates the local businesses it replaces those jobs paying $15 an hour or more with $7 an hour jobs with now medical care - that is how they make their money. That money that does not go to pay local people a fair living wage leaves the local community and goes to the Walton heirs.

In 2010 the employees of Wal-Mart gave over $6 million to charity. The
llplied heath insurNCE IS A perk, NOT A RIGHT, not a RIGHT!
Walton family, one of the richest in the world, in the same year gave a grand total of less than $6,000.

I understand people wanting to save money by buying items at Wal-Mart but in no way can I condone this extremely selfish and short sighted behavior. Doing the right thing is not the same as doing what is easiest or the most profitable [moderator edit]
uggg..... you guys are gonna get me edited and/or banned yet...

Employer supplied health insurance is a PERK, not a right. WE gave it to you, and we can take it away any time we want. just because the employers of America saw this as a way to (tax deductively) share the wealth, does not obligate "them" to continue to do so.
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:03 PM   #430
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Well we'll have to agree to disagree, a stock clerk should NOT be making the same wage as a person who is a technical repairperson.

The more experience, training, skills a person has should be reflected in their pay - unless you're an actor .

[moderator edit]
uh, yea?
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:07 PM   #431
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$20 an hour, figuring 40 hours a week for 52 weeks is $41600. I know people who are doing OK on less than that. If someone was making that in the 70s they were doing real well (I was an E5 in 1975 making $5911.20).

IMHO "living wage" is like a blob of jelly. The amount of money it takes for someone to live is dependent on so many factors that it can't be nailed down as a particular figure. Many of those factors depend upon the personal decisions made by the individual.

If I feel strongly enough that new employees should be paid more than $20 an hour I have the freedom to open a business and implement those salary policies. But until I do so, it is wrong for me to criticize someone else's salary policies without knowing all the details of their business (which I won't unless I sit on their board of directors).
As another who was an E5, making $6k a month, somewhere in southeast asia in the early or mid 70's...

If you take a job, you agree to the conditions of that job.
If you buy a product, you at least don't violently disagree with the policies of the company selling that product...
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:13 PM   #432
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Gotta disagree about controlling our own future because frankly we DO control our own future. I choose where to spend my dollars - sometimes at Wally World most of the time not.

The USA government produces LOTS of materials for the 'war machine' - just look to the state of Texas where most of the ammunition and retrofitting of Hummers occurs.

Of the contries you listed only the Koreans have more production capacity than the US - maybe the Germans but they're making more high-tech stuff then we can afford while the French are ...well they're French

We are looking to cash in, to enjoy what is left of our years in the best most exciting most fun way possible.
Wal-Mart is ruthless in how they do business and because of that they are successful. Microsoft is the same way in the PC world but do you hear anyone crying that Microsoft is killing America? What about Exxon Mobil and their BILLIONS of yearly profits? Does anyone think that THEY are killing America?

Toughen up people, stop making excuses and let's pull together. America is great and once we stop belly aching and units there's nothing this contry can't do.

Except agree on anything to do with Wal-Mart.....

And that is the bottom line. most of us posting here are in life's "end run."
To enjoy what is left of our lives in the best most exciting way possible...

while at the same time, our children will need to get down and do what we have all ready done.

And too many just plain won't.

Is that our fault?
Or theirs?
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:25 PM   #433
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Employer supplied health insurance is a PERK, not a right. WE gave it to you, and we can take it away any time we want. just because the employers of America saw this as a way to (tax deductively) share the wealth, does not obligate "them" to continue to do so.
Great point. For years companies offered health insurance as a way to get people to come to work for them. They also provided group life insurance, short and long term disability insurance, paid 1/2 the SS tax (Ok this was mandated), built workout rooms, sports fields, and many more reasons for people to work for them.

Soon companies will be fined if they Don't provide health insurance. It is not the companies responsibility to take care of you.
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:49 PM   #434
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Great point. For years companies offered health insurance as a way to get people to come to work for them. They also provided group life insurance, short and long term disability insurance, paid 1/2 the SS tax (Ok this was mandated), built workout rooms, sports fields, and many more reasons for people to work for them.

Soon companies will be fined if they Don't provide health insurance. It is not the companies responsibility to take care of you.
DW worked for a company that was, adjusting their books, to make the bottom line more.... what ever they called it. Anyways during this repair they took away the accrual of sick and vacation time (you could take what you had already but for 3 months you did not gain any time).
People made decisions to express their displeasure and the company reinstated the accrual and had to find replacements for about 20-30 nurses.
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