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Old 09-13-2014, 08:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wb7auk View Post
I will try once again:
The op's kill o watt appears to be showing peak volts and not rms voltage.
What has gone away in the circuit is hard to say, I pulled up the diagram and there are a couple of things that could cause this if it is the one that several have posted the manual on.
The op wanted to know why he was showing two different readings with different meters and I stated the reason why it could occur.
FWIW - There are two ways to read voltage with a simple meter. One is a basic rectifier with a capacitive filter that reads peak but has the dial calibrated in VRMS. The other way is to do samples over time and to calculate the RMS content based on the sample values. RMS is really a power measurement that reflects the equivalent heating capacity compared to a DC voltage. That is why it is less than the peak voltage.

True RMS was hard to get until the advent of dedicated processor chips in the late 1970's or so. Now they are in a lot of $12 meters from China. The problem you get with a true RMS meter is that the voltage is a direct function of the wave shape. A true sinusoidal Inverter should provide the same reading as the equivalent sinusoidal wave coming off the power line. The gotcha is that for a non sinusoidal wave the true RMS reading will be the DC equivalent power. This will not be the peak voltage divided by the square root of 2.

The interesting issue is what problems will occur. As long as the peak voltage is not exceeded there is no abnormal insulation stress. For most modern switching power supplies where a rectifier charges a bulk capacitor that feeds the switching oscillator the charging pulse to the bulk filter cap will change but will not be an issue for a robust designed system. The problem may be motors that run off the power line. Given the move to more and servo motors that is getting to be less of a problem in many devices. I'm not sure where I am supposed to worry as long as I am not driving big motors or transformers.
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Old 09-13-2014, 09:18 PM   #16
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The Kill O Watt is a True RMS meter. His is broken. Even one working correctly should be used for indication only. They are rated at 1% at 125 volts but in that price range it is doubtful they will maintain accuracy or have much of a protection circuit.
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Old 09-14-2014, 08:43 AM   #17
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His may be broken. I'd take it in the house and try it on distributed AC. That is the easiest way to check it. A power pole at a campground would do as well. The generator output should also be relatively clean.

The problem with inverter outputs is that the closer to a square wave they are the more energy they contain and the higher the RMS voltage compared to Peak voltage. If his VOM is a peak reader calibrated to show Sinusoidal RMS and the Killowatt is a true RMS what he describes may be correct. The only AC voltage measurement that is not waveform dependent is Peak voltage.
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:12 AM   #18
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Everyone needs to go back and read very carefully what the op posted.
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:40 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey View Post

My Kill a watt meter reads 149-150 volts,,, when I know that's not right.

Anyway, my question is why does the kill a watt meter read so high ???

Your Kill-O-Watt is defective.

Are there batteries to replace in that thing ?

No internal batteries.

Thanks,,, Monkey
Again, one more time......

Buy a new Kill-O-Watt. and throw the defective one in the trash.

Dr4Film ----- Richard
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Old 09-15-2014, 07:50 PM   #20
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Thanks Richard and everybody... This one worked fine for several months... (AC voltage readings). Now even plugged into a house wall socket it reads the same,, about 150 volts ac... (digital meter says about 120...) I'll trash it... Thanks again,,,, Monkey
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Old 09-16-2014, 08:14 PM   #21
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Contact manufacturer as they may just replace it.

Costs nothing to ask.
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Old 09-17-2014, 07:03 PM   #22
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I just contacted them... we'll see if there is any customer support...
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Old 09-17-2014, 07:14 PM   #23
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The only thing missing in this discussion is a bottle of your choice and a campfire and it could go on all night....
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Old 09-18-2014, 01:33 PM   #24
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I jumped in this one at post 8 with a question and thanks for the answers. I was happy to learn the Kill a Watt is a true RMS meter. I put the Kill a watt on the plug that operates the Samsung refrigerator and am getting 118.9 volts at the plug so I think all is well for the refrigerator.

Mel, thanks for the directions for the Kill a watt.
Art, Yes the demensions inverter is a msw

Bob
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:02 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by 1ciderdog View Post

I jumped in this one at post 8 with a question and thanks for the answers. I was happy to learn the Kill a Watt is a true RMS meter. I put the Kill a watt on the plug that operates the Samsung refrigerator and am getting 118.9 volts at the plug so I think all is well for the refrigerator.

Mel, thanks for the directions for the Kill a watt.
Art, Yes the dimensions inverter is a msw

Bob
Bob,

Let me know what you determine to be your KwH's used for a day.

I did a 3 month study where I checked after each month. The result I got for our usage was 1.81 - 1,83 KwH's per day.

I have yet to have anyone else post what they get when using their Samsung RF197.

Also, I have not use the Kill-O-Watt with my Xantrex Trace MSW Inverter power to see if it would work OK and not burn up.

I have had two devices smoke when on MSW power. One was a remote base unit for a 120 VAC device where I can turn a light on and off. I opened it up and replaced a burned out resistor with a huge one so it can now take the heat. The second device smoked so bad it had to be tossed away. That was an alarm for when power has been severed. I was charging it on an Inverter powered outlet for awhile and then not thinking I cut the power to do something and when I walked inside the whole coach was smoke. Sure glad I walked in when I did.

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Old 09-18-2014, 02:13 PM   #26
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Richard, the RV refrigerator is turned off at the moment. I'll be powering it up again Monday and I'll run it through the kill a watt and get back to you. I also have the 197 in our house so will run that through the kill a watt for a few days to see what it comes up with.
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Old 09-20-2014, 11:16 AM   #27
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Bob,

Let me know what you determine to be your KwH's used for a day.

I did a 3 month study where I checked after each month. The result I got for our usage was 1.81 - 1,83 KwH's per day.

I have yet to have anyone else post what they get when using their Samsung RF197.

Dr4Film ----- Richard
Richard
It's only been a couple of days but it shows 44:29 hours and 3.89 KWH. The short test indicates a usage a little above your 1.81 but my wife has been cooking and placing (hot) meals to be frozen in the freezer so I presume it is working a little harder the past two days than it would normally.
Bob
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Old 09-22-2014, 01:27 PM   #28
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I did hear back from P3 tech support... Just wanted everyone to know I am pleased with the response.. They gave me a RMA # ,, but I looked it up and I bought it Dec 2012.. So I figure it's way past any warrenty.. I won't mess with it... Just wanted to let people know they will get back to you and are willing to help.... (didn't think I had it that long,,,, I'm old......)
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