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Old 07-21-2008, 06:45 AM   #43
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Sounds like your advocating small government here...why so do I!


Who deserves blame? Middle East sultans? Oil company executives? Commodities speculators?
How about blaming our very own United States Congress?

For decades, Congress has led our government into disastrous decisions by being the patsy of radical environmentalists, naysayers and prophets of doom. Recent presidents have done little to resist.

We don't have a shortage of oil and gas reserves; they've just been placed off limits. They include parts of Alaska, other public lands, the Gulf of Mexico and offshore areas. The American Petroleum Institute, or API, reports that opening up these areas would provide enough oil to power 60 million cars for 60 years, plus enough natural gas to heat 60 million homes for 160 years. But 85 percent of coastal waters have been declared off limits, along with similar restrictions on 75 percent of the onshore prospects.

That's why 60 percent of our oil is now imported. And these restrictions caused America to lose more than 1 million jobs in oil and gas during the past 25 years. How many "green collar" jobs have we gained to replace them?

Similar federal policies have blocked construction of oil refineries and nuclear power plants for more than 30 years, again increasing our dependence on foreign supplies of energy.

Yes, our modern technology can produce the energy we need without harming the environment. Unfortunately,there are those who have sought to demonize the oil and gas industry, hoping to destroy its credibility so the public will see it as a greedy bunch of rich polluters.

With gasoline so expensive, oil executives were called before Congress to discuss record-high profits. The hope was to justify taxing them for another $18 billion, on top of the $90 billion they already pay. Politicians then would give that $18 billion to subsidize other types of energy that are too expensive to operate profitably.

Yet the profit margin for oil and gas is about 7 cents for each dollar invested, according to Business Week. That's about the same margin as Avon Cosmetics, Amazon.com and Bed Bath & Beyond. And toothpaste maker Colgate-Palmolive. Apple, with high-tech gurus, was twice as profitable. So were Coke and Pepsi. And Microsoft and Google made four times the average oil company's rate of return.

But is anybody angry about the high cost of toothpaste, iPods or soft drinks? Why don't more profitable companies get raked over the coals by Congress? Because Congress doesn't need them as scapegoats.

Lawmakers have messed up America's energy supply so badly that they need someone and something else to blame. They're creating a diversion trying to brainwash the public into how to think and who to accuse.

Another reason for high gas prices: federal and state regulations that require dozens of "boutique fuels," dictating different blends of gas for different regions. As a result, we no longer have an efficient national market that enables a surplus in one area to be shifted to another part of the country. Boutique fuels require expensive refinery shutdowns to change output from one formula to another, lowering production and risking overproduction for one area and underproduction for someplace else. Consumers pay the price.

A big part of boutique fuels is the ethanol mandate, now set by Congress at $18 billion a year, which shifted the corn supply from food to fuel. The mandate set off a domino effect as the government pays farmers to grow corn rather than other grains, and to sell it for fuel instead of food. And because corn is the major feed for livestock, the prices of meat, eggs, milk and so on climb along with prices for grain, flour, baked goods, etc.

Nobody wants to be blamed for food riots and world hunger, but the public is realizing those are the outrageous results of ethanol subsidies.
Besides, ethanol reduces all-important gas mileage. As the Heritage Foundation's Ben Lieberman put it, "America's energy policy has been on an ethanol binge, and now the hangover has begun."

Unfortunately, we've lost time while we were on that binge. Now, if we want to get serious about lower gasoline prices (and food prices), here's a simple five-point checklist:

1. Understand the causes, especially the role of government*
2. Open up reserve areas
3. Build refineries and nuclear power plants
4. End expensive and wasteful mandates, especially ethanol
5. Let the free market develop alternatives for the future

Finally, remember patience: These problems didn't develop overnight and can't be solved overnight. America's consumers should wake up and realize taxes aren't the only way elected officials reach into our pockets. It's time to slap away those hands.

*The Energy Policy Act of 2005
The energy bill did contain two major provisions affecting motor fuels: an ethanol mandate and the repeal of a 1990 law requiring the use of gasoline additives such as methyl tertiary-butyl ether (MTBE). These measures, however, have contributed to the current jump at the pump.

And the EPA has created a maze of red tape that makes it difficult for refiners to expand capacity to meet growing demand.

http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed042808a.cfm



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vegascpl:
I did a quick read of the comments here and noticed that no one really wants to talk about the real reasons behind the raise in gas prices.

The Federal government is borrowing Billions possibly Trillions of dollars. Normally when demand is high interest rates are also high, but interest rates have been kept low. We all know that that the dollar has lost more than a third of its value in the last 7 years. We've all lost a third of our net worth and everything we buy is more expensive. The price of gas has a lot to do with our inability to live within our means.

The reason for speculation is the fear the supply of oil will be disrupted. Instability in the Middle East is a big contributor to that fear.

Finally the theory that if we give all our money to the oil companies and it will trickle down to the poor people, isn't working! Why anyone would think that the oil companies would give us a deal on oil drilled in the US is beyond me. Where does the oil drilled in Alaska end up? How does that benefit us? Every quarter oil companies establish new profit records. Their executives get rewarded with $400,000,000 retirements. Remember eight years ago, gas sold for $1.39 per gallon.

There are things our government could do that would reduce the price of gas. However, giving more to the oil companies isn't one of them.

Michael
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Old 07-22-2008, 07:41 AM   #44
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Joanie,

You are correct if you follow the "Bush" plan in 10 to 15 years we'll have more supply, but that does nothing for today's gas prices. Even the oil companies are saying they won't have crews to drill for more oil for 7 years. In 10 to 15 years there will just be more demand from us as well as other many other countries. Prices will be even higher, but we'll be used to it by then. We will be burning so much fossil fuel that you won't be able to see blue skies anymore and we'll all need oxygen to stay alive.

On the other hand we could work towards conservation. Put some real efforts behind developing alternative fuels. If we were to spend just 10% of what we spend in Iraq we could have renewable power from solar and wind. We could save our blue skys and our clean air? I don't understand the downside to clean air and water? Maybe you don't need it to live but I do!

Remember when everyone wanted our US dollars? Now no one wants dollars. The reason is that every day dollars are worth less. That means your dollar buys less. The only way to have an immediate effect of gas prices is to strengthen our dollar. Then your dollar will buy more gas. That is the reason Bud is no longer an American beer! If we don't wake up soon nothing in the US will be American owned!

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Old 07-22-2008, 10:35 AM   #45
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If we don't wake up soon nothing in the US will be American owned! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry, but no-one in the world wants to buy our debt, so we'll always own that. In face our children's children will still own our debt. Yes, we need a major course correction. We are acting like the world is flat.
Just think, some folks still think we're still not in a recession, heck we're headed for the next depression. We'll finally get our act together then...
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Old 07-23-2008, 07:44 AM   #46
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Why has no one admitted the problem is people in the US today. Its not federal govt, its not the oil companies, its not china. Its us. We are wimps. We refuse to walk anywhere. We drive like the world will end tomorrow. Calif alone uses more oil in a day than all of china. We have oil wells in the US today that are capped due to no place to refine it. Why??? Cuz the wimps and crybabies do not want refineries in their back yard. They want to save the fish, cats, dogs, frogs or some other endangered animal(I agree with protecting animals on the endangered list, we and pets are not on the endangered list). We are presently shipping half of all oil pumped out in the US to other countries for refining. We dont have the back bone to tell congress we have had enough and actually back it up and do anything about it. It reminds me of the atheists who say no more religious objects and no more religious signs, but ask them if they want to discontinue easter and christmas and if they want to work those days while others are off and they say whoa wait you cant do that.
Face it we are our own worst enemies. I watch my own children as well as other people who live within a couple of houses of a fast food place or corner store, drive to them rather than walk. Blame no one but us for being lazy, lame, spoiled, whining, and so on.
Ok go ahead and bite my head off now.
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Old 07-23-2008, 09:59 AM   #47
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Blame no one but us for being lazy, lame, spoiled, whining, and so on.
Ok go ahead and bite my head off now.
Not Me MtmanLee,
I actually agree with your input. Did you known that a person who is physically able and can't walk a quarter mile in under 6 minutes or less, is likely to die in the next five years. To many quarter pounders/soda pop/video games and lack of phycial activity. Sorry to digress. I'm active, so don't bite me either.
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Old 07-24-2008, 02:49 PM   #48
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DocUSAF:

Did you known that a person who is physically able and can't walk a quarter mile in under 6 minutes or less, is likely to die in the next five years: </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Is this common knowledge in the general public?
If not, it strikes me it would be an effective scare tactic to instill a desire for minimum physical activity.
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Old 07-25-2008, 07:33 AM   #49
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DocUSAF:
Did you known that a person who is physically able and can't walk a quarter mile in under 6 minutes or less, is likely to die in the next five years. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My older brother says that he's lost several friends who were out walking/jogging to heart attacks/stroke/automobile collisions. He says "stay home in your easy chair where you're safe". He says any urge to exercise will be gone after about a 2 hour nap.
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Old 07-25-2008, 03:13 PM   #50
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Michael,

Where did following the Clinton plan get us?
If we had been drilling, like we should have 10 or 15 years ago we would not be were we are now! There are no quick fixes.

However, are you saying because it is going to take a while we just should not do it?


Your right the demand is going to increase because oil is and always has been a global market. And China & India have not been developing industrialized nations like they are now.

We are Americans, we can do BOTH, use the natural resources we are blessed with, oil, natural gas, coal in a responsible way AND continue to work on viable alternative energy sources. Speaking of there are NO alternative energy sources now that can come close to meeting the needs of a secure modern country that wants to have a prosperous economy

Moreover, we have more environmental polices in place that any other country. How much do you think China cares for the environment? Beijing is so polluted some Olympic athletes refuse to compete there! Who is going to force them to conserve or "go green"

In addition, China is drilling off the shore of Florida yet we aren't?
Every country in the world does off shore drilling but we can't?

Just mentioning more oil causes the price to drop

When President Bush removed the ban on offshore drilling, the price dropped
Of course, it is up to Congress to approve the executive order and what are they doing?

There is no shortage, the new U.S. Geological Survey (7/23/08) states: The area north of the Arctic Circle has an estimated 90 billion barrels of undiscovered, technically recoverable oil, 1,670 trillion cubic feet of technically recoverable natural gas, and 44 billion barrels of technically recoverable natural gas liquids in 25 geologically defined areas thought to have potential for petroleum.
These resources account for about 22 percent of the undiscovered, technically recoverable resources in the world.

About 84 percent of the estimated resources are expected to occur offshore. More than half of the undiscovered oil resources are estimated to occur in just three geologic provinces - Arctic Alaska, the Amerasia Basin, and the East Greenland Rift Basins. http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article...&from=rss_home

Maybe we should sell Alaska back to the Russians who will sell us the oil they will take from there?!

So sorry I do not agree, "I can't keep my heat at 72 degrees or drive an SUV because of what the rest of the world may think. Especially when the rest of the world is drilling off shore, using and building nuclear power plants and coal fired plants, like...

DUBAI - The United Arab Emirates has signed a deal worth up to $2 billion for Malaysia Mining Corp Bhd (MMC) to build the Gulf's first coal-fired power plant.
The UAE sits on around 3.5 percent of the world's total gas reserves and is the fifth-largest oil exporter. http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.re...tentID=2008071912138

As far as conserving, it should be voluntary in the most prosperous country
in the world. Why should we HAVE TO when we have all these natural resources?

Your "gloom and doom" scenario of no blue skies to look at and gasping for oxygen is silly

However if you care to put your $$$ where your sentiment is, I will bet you $100.00 in 10-15 years we will NOT be gasping for oxygen and the skies will still be <span class="ev_code_BLUE">blue</span>
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Old 07-26-2008, 09:02 AM   #51
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Joanie,

Here's my take on the questions you bring up. Yes we could have been drilling 10 or 15 years ago, but the oil companies already have thousand of leases they are not drilling today. So what make you think they would have gone after deep water wells that everyone knows carry a huge risk. We don't have a lot of experience in deep water it's fair to say there will be a lot of disaster. Are you really saying that It's ok to fill our oceans with millions of gallons of crude oil because you don't want to make changes in your life? When you destroy life in our oceans you'll destroy life on land. I know many of you think that it's all about losing a bird. It's not it's about losing life earth. If you were close to the Mississippi river right now you might see the effect of spilled oil up front and personal. Personally I love beautiful beaches without stepping on globs of oil. Is it really wrong to want to enjoy the natural beauty of our beaches just so everyone can drive a huge SUV?

When Bush eliminated his father's restriction on off shore drilling, it was ceremonial as nothing can happen. How could that possibly affect the price of a barrel of oil? Even if congress were to eliminate those restrictions it would not affect the price of oil until that oil hits the market. No one really knows if or when we'll be able to produce oil from those wells or exactly how much oil is there. We don't even know if it's economical to bring that oil to market. So why would a speculator think wow the US will have more oil in 10 or 15 years so oil is going to sell for less? I think the same way about the Democratic proposal to release oil from the national reserves. That would have made a small blip in oil prices with no real long term effect.

I think we all know that the price of oil is a bubble that is about to explode. That's the way it happens in commodity markets. Oil is now over priced and is on the way down. However, we've also demonstrated that we are ready and willing to pay $5 a gallon so greed will never go down to previous levels.

Personally I don't think that high oil prices are a bad thing! I don't want to be like China today and have to wear masks and breathe oxygen. I don't like driving into the LA basin looking at the horrible brown cloud and breathing air that stinks. The Bush environmental program of just trusting polluters to do that right thing has done huge damage to our air quality. I don't understand why so many are willing to give up breathing fresh air so that each and every person can drive a car that gets 10 MPG? I know you don't want to believe that the ice is melting in Antarctica and will be gone from the North Pole. After all how could 97% of the world's scientists have it right when we believe it's something else? Let's just say the entire scientific community has it wrong. Do you really want to have to breathe through an oxygen mask just to say you were right?

If we had invested just 10% of what we spend in Iraq we could have build solar and wind power in many parts of our country. Sure it's expensive so is the war. No one would have to die, we would have energy that does not pollute and it would go one forever. I don't understand why you are so against that? If we would all drive vehicles that got better mileage we would be so much better off. I love my hybrid. It's has plenty of speed and power and for most purposes there is little difference but I get twice the mileage. Hybrids are just the first step. We now have electric cars that can go 200 miles between charges. How many of us really drive more than that in a day? High fuel prices will force us to look for alternatives. The only real downside seems to be lower profits for oil companies. I know that's terrible thing. Just think their executives would have to with $20,000,000 dollar retirements instead of $400,000,000 as they are today. How will they ever survive?

My motor home gets poor gas mileage but it's also my home so on balance my use of natural resources is less than those who live in houses. I can also move my home to avoid high energy costs due to climate. So on balance living in your motor home is not the same as owning a Escalade.

It's time to stop looking for someone to blame for high oil prices, do really do something. Our money buys a third less than it did a few years ago. Everything has to be more expensive as our money is worth less. We purchased low interest rates but our net worth and buying power has gone down by over a third. The only thing that can change that is a stronger dollar. What is so wrong with our country having a balanced budget and not borrowing hundreds of billions of dollars each year? There are other reason like tension in the Middle East and Greed, but this is a problem we can solve. That also means that if we are to continue to fight wars we'll need to step up the plate and pay for them with higher taxes. This county needs a change in course that is why only 14% of the population thinks we are on the right track.

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Old 07-26-2008, 09:35 AM   #52
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I agree 100% with Joanie and reject most of what Michael has written. Michael's comments are just typical far out liberal democrat tirades. We have the technology to drill for oil in an environmentally safe way both offshore and on land. Congress sits on their fat overpaid behinds and blocks everything that will help the common folks. Millions of Americans, including myself, cannot afford to buy a hybrid or electric powered vehicle, we have to depend on our so-called gas guzzlers that we now have. Thanks to the regulations of the EPA over the years, new vehicle prices are now beyond what many of us retirees on fixed incomes can afford. Look at the price of Diesel fuel, when I bought my 04 Winnebago Journey in 2004, the price of diesel was around 25 cents below regular gasoline, now it is close to a dollar a gallon higher than gasoline thanks in part of the EPA mandating sulphur be removed from diesel. I have breathed diesel fumes most of my life yet have lived 77 years and still in good health, and Michael, I don't have to carry around an oxygen tank! I don't think any of us will live forever no matter how clean the air is.
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Old 07-26-2008, 11:31 AM   #53
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Here's a satellite picture of where we've shifted our pollution China This is also where we've shifted our jobs.

Millions of gallons of crude oil along with billions of cubic feet of natural gas seep naturally into our oceans. Two small gas vents have been captured and generate billions of cubic feet of gas "enough to supply 25000 homes"
Crude oil that seeped naturally onto the ground was discovered thousands of years ago. The inventive early people discovered that it would burn and the whiners complained about the smell (until they got cold and then they changed their position on the subject and hoped for a new alternative source of heat but did nothing except file what is known today as a lawsuit).

My opinion of why our own resources are not developed is that the petroleum industry can't trust our politicians. The whiners seem to follow every idiotic whim that comes along. Why spend billions of dollars developing oil and gas sites when the fuzz heads might decide that the well is not conducive to the nesting habits of the spotted tree salmon?

We elected a new majority to our congress 2 years ago to do something about the $2.50 gasoline. Let's hope they stop working on the problem SOON!!!
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Old 07-26-2008, 01:13 PM   #54
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Old 07-26-2008, 03:09 PM   #55
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Well how about trusting the Bush's Energy Department?

WASHINGTON - Opening an Alaska wildlife refuge to oil development would only slightly reduce America's dependence on imports and would lower oil prices by less than 50 cents a barrel, according to an analysis released Tuesday by the Energy Department.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4542853/
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Old 07-26-2008, 07:34 PM   #56
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