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Old 05-31-2007, 04:54 AM   #43
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Here are some interesting stastics:

"The comparison of Canada's Health Care system is often made to its neighbor the U.S.A. which spends the most in the world per capita, and is ranked 37th in the world, by the World Health Organization; when in fact many sources rate the Health Care Systems in France, and in Italy as the top two in the world.[16]Canada's Health System was ranked 30th, using certain specific criteria. It should be noted however, that the WHO Health Care Ranking has been criticized for its choice of ranking criteria and statistical methods, and the WHO is currently revising its methodology and is withholding new rankings until the problems are addressed.[17]

Canada spends no more than the G7 average on health care as a fraction of GDP; however, most health statistics in Canada are at or above the G7 average[18]. In some health statistics, Canada has slightly better numbers than the United States, although there are certainly differences by each individual province and state."

This quote was from and there is much more information at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada

Basically we pay twice as much for medical care and in terms of effectiveness we are ranked #37. I read that to mean we have room for improvement.

There is a table on the referenced site. Life Expectancy in the Us is currently 77.5 years, in Canada 80.5. Don't miss the fact that France and Italy are ranked as the top two in terms of effectivness. Yet all of these countries spend about half what we spend on medical care and it covers everyone!

Also find it facinating that you say in Mesa the hospitals are full of Canadians. I know that there is a lot of wealth in parts of Canada. However, it makes one wonder why someone would pay $100,000 for a weeks stay in a US hospital when they could simply have it done in Canada for free?

It's time to stop thinking only about corporate profit and start thinking about whats best for all Americans!

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Old 05-31-2007, 05:21 AM   #44
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"Also find it facinating that you say in Mesa the hospitals are full of Canadians. I know that there is a lot of wealth in parts of Canada. However, it makes one wonder why someone would pay $100,000 for a weeks stay in a US hospital when they could simply have it done in Canada for free? "

I sit here in Brigham City, UT parked next to a custom made 40' RV owned by a rather affluent Canadian couple. We had a great discussion about Canadian health care vs. the US.

Certainly a Candian can go to a hospital. Oh, the waiting list for an MRI, for example, is 6 mos. to a year.

Unless you have a certified life threatening illness, you are not likely to get needed care for a similar period.

He chooses the US every time.

Not all the propaganda put out is factual. Talk to the people who have to deal with the real thing.
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Old 05-31-2007, 05:53 AM   #45
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-------------------------------------------------------------
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vegascpl:
Here are some interesting stastics:

***snip***

Michael
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

-----------------------------------------------------------

Wow - perhaps we should do the right thing for the illegal folks who risk their lives to get into America and direct them to Canada! They seemingly would be better off and the burden on our crummy system would be diminished.
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Old 06-01-2007, 09:06 AM   #46
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it makes one wonder why someone would pay $100,000 for a weeks stay in a US hospital when they could simply have it done in Canada for free?

Why do liberals believe everything governments hand out is "free"? It's NOT FREE!
It certainly costs someone! Why not the person getting the service?

Where is all this going to stop? If we need a new car, are we going to expect the government to give us one for "free"?
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Old 06-01-2007, 09:12 AM   #47
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It's time to stop thinking only about corporate profit and start thinking about whats best for all Americans! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And corporate profits are a BAD thing?
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Old 06-01-2007, 09:22 AM   #48
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I can't afford any more free government services.
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Old 06-05-2007, 04:10 PM   #49
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During a Q&A at the recent Berkshire Hathaway annual meeting, the world's second richest man said:

The tax breaks for the wealthy that have been enacted are extraordinary. Most members of the Forbes 400 pay a lower portion of their income in taxes than the receptionist in our office does. That wasn't true 30 years ago"”and it should not be true in a rich society. In 2004, my tax rate was the lowest of anyone among the 15 or 16 people who work in our office. And that wasn't because of any tax shelters I invested in (I don't own any tax shelters) or any special tax advice I got. It's crazy.

The media hasn't conveyed the extent to which the typical individual hasn't shared in the prosperity of the past 10 years as much as the wealthy have.
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Old 06-05-2007, 04:36 PM   #50
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"The tax breaks for the wealthy that have been enacted are extraordinary. Most members of the Forbes 400 pay a lower portion of their income in taxes than the receptionist in our office does."

In absolute numbers that may be true, but in percentage of income, it is totally wrong and gives the wrong impression.

The wealthy (top 5%) still pay 54.36% of the taxes collected in this country. I pay a very large amount of taxes on the $14,000 Soc Sec I receive every year! Thanks Bill. I have NO deductions.
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Old 06-06-2007, 02:37 AM   #51
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Lets' look at reality and the big picture of people depending on "daddy government" i.e entitlements

April 15, 2007

Who Pays What on Tax Day

by Scott A. Hodge and Brian Phillips
The Tax Foundation


(The following article first appeared in the San Diego Union-Tribune)

It's almost Tax Day and millions of Americans across the country are mumbling and grumbling as they write big fat checks payable to Uncle Sam. Attitudes about paying taxes are consistent. The majority of Americans say their taxes are too high and less than one in 10 say taxes are too low.

This should surprise no one. The federal tax code is a complex abomination that feeds into Americans' anxiety over income security. People are generally uncertain about how much they owe from year to year and show strong cynicism about how the money is spent.

Further, more and more Americans believe they are being taxed unfairly. Americans will typically say that the poor pay very little in taxes and the rich are able to circumvent the system to avoid paying their fair share. As a result, grandstanding about the so-called "middle-class squeeze" is now commonplace among our elected officials.

So who exactly is paying all the taxes?

The truth is that the vast majority of federal income taxes are paid by high-income earners. According to the most recent IRS data available, the top 10 percent of households - with incomes roughly $100,000 or greater - pay roughly 70 percent of all federal income taxes. That share is up from just below 50 percent in 1980. If you include the top quarter of all taxpayers, the share balloons to 85 percent.


Interestingly, the cause of these surging payments by high earners has as much to do with demographics as with tax policy. In 1967, most households in the statistical middle fit the traditional notion of the "middle class" - married couples with children living on the income from one breadwinner.

By contrast, today's statistical middle - people earning between $25,000 and $45,000 - are mostly young and single. People marry later, and they divorce earlier. Forty years ago, middle-income households looked like the family in "Ozzie and Harriet"; today, it is the cast of "Friends."

And among today's married couples, few are living on one income. Between 1980 and 2003, the number of dual-income working-age couples grew rapidly, and the extra income catapults these households into the highest income groups.

But just because a couple's combined salaries seem high doesn't make them wealthy. For example, a young factory worker earning $18 an hour - or $36,700 per year - clearly falls into the statistical middle. But if she marries a man earning the same amount, their combined income of $73,400 is enough to qualify them to be in the top 20 percent of Americans. Thus, a family can have two "middle-class" jobs with two middle-income salaries, but still be considered statistically high-income according to IRS data.

Still, despite these demographic changes, lawmakers aren't necessarily off the hook. Recent tax policy changes have created an unsustainable shift in which a diminishing number of Americans overwhelmingly bear the national tax burden.

For instance, many of the tax cuts enacted over the past six years - specifically the doubling of the child credit to $1,000 and the introduction of the new 10 percent bracket - were targeted to help taxpayers in the statistical middle. It is unlikely that lawmakers understood how powerful these measures would be - not only lowering the tax burden for millions of lower-and middle-income taxpayers, but knocking millions of people off the tax rolls entirely, turning them into non-paying tax filers.

The growth of non-payers has been nothing short of remarkable.

Each year the federal government asks for larger and larger sums from a gradually depleting pool of taxpayers. [B]In 2004, some 42.5 million Americans filed a tax return but had no tax liability after taking advantage of their credits and deductions - up from 32 million just four years earlier. Non-payers account for 32 percent of all tax filers, a 160 percent increase in the number of non-payers since 1985.[B]

In addition to these non-paying filers, roughly 15 million individuals and families earned some income in 2004 but not enough to be required to file a tax return. When these non-filers are added to the non-payers, they add up to 57.5 million income-earning households who paid no income taxes.

Even 57.5 million is not the actual number of people because one tax return often represents several people. When all of the dependents of these income-producing households are counted, roughly 120 million Americans - 40 percent of the U.S. population - are outside of the federal income tax system.

In addition, a recently released Tax Foundation study revealed that 60 percent of American households are now net consumers of government spending. That is, a significant majority now receive more in government spending than they pay in taxes. In all, over $1 trillion is redistributed from the top 40 percent to the bottom 60 percent.

It is no wonder people feel the tax code is unfair. The ones paying most of the taxes see little for their return.

While some may applaud the fact that millions of low-and middle-income families pay no income taxes, there is a threat to the fabric of our democracy when so many Americans are not only disconnected from the costs of government but are net consumers of government services. The conditions are ripe for social conflict if these voters begin to demand more government benefits because they know others will bear the costs.


Indeed, the fiscal tsunami of entitlement spending is just a few short years away. Once the baby boomers begin to retire, the call for government services will become louder and louder. Our current fiscal policies have given us no way to pay for it without either drastic cuts or massive tax increases.

If people are grumbling about the check the have to write now, just wait.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dalsn1:
During a Q&A at the recent Berkshire Hathaway annual meeting, the world's second richest man said:

The tax breaks for the wealthy that have been enacted are extraordinary. Most members of the Forbes 400 pay a lower portion of their income in taxes than the receptionist in our office does. That wasn't true 30 years ago"”and it should not be true in a rich society. In 2004, my tax rate was the lowest of anyone among the 15 or 16 people who work in our office. And that wasn't because of any tax shelters I invested in (I don't own any tax shelters) or any special tax advice I got. It's crazy.

The media hasn't conveyed the extent to which the typical individual hasn't shared in the prosperity of the past 10 years as much as the wealthy have. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Old 06-06-2007, 05:55 AM   #52
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You are correct the Rich are getting Richer and the Poor are getting Poorer. That has been a fact of life since the Bush Republicans took office. Just look at the huge tax credits Bush gave the oil companies who are experiencing record breaking profits. Oil company CEO's retire with $400 million retirement programs. Don't tell me it's passed down to stock holders because only tiny fraction gets passed down.

So what you are saying is that the guy who earns $400,000,0000 is paying way too much! As opposed to the family who has to make a decision between buying drugs or food or gas. How are they ever going to make up the difference?

What I don't get I'm guessing most of you are middle class. Yet you support lowing taxes for the wealthy who can well afford to pay taxes. If you increase the taxes on lower income people they will starve. So that means you, the middle class, has to pick up the difference.

So what you are really saying is that you support the middle class paying more taxes so that the wealthy can pay less, which is what is happening right now. Then you complain about it?

That is the reason people talk about social conservatives. Politicians get you all excited about denying gays equal rights of abortion so that you'll vote for them. Have you noticed that nothing happens on those issues after you vote?

Large corporations and wealthy individuals make huge political contributions. They don't do this out of the goodness of their hearts. They want a return on their investment. How would you rate the return on investment for say the drug companies or oil companies? How would you rate the return you got on your investment?

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Old 06-06-2007, 07:30 AM   #53
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Vegascpl

You have spewed so much false information it is unbelieveable.

Fact- More people are invested in the stock market than ever before.

Fact- More people own their own homes than ever before.

Fact- The poor get poorer because they do little or nothing to help themselves.

I will say no more on this thread because it is turning into a gigantic BS session (anti-conservative)!
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Old 06-06-2007, 08:25 AM   #54
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For the life of me I can't understand how people fortunate enough to be able to own a RV and travel as we do, can always find so much bitterness towards those less fortunate. Guys we've made ours, how much more do you need? I'll pay my fair share and be happy that I'm in the group that pays, rather than those who make so little they don't have to. I'm sure most of you think I'm some sort of bleeding heart liberal, your wrong. I'm thankful I was lucky enough to get where I am, and not above helping those that haven't made it yet. You know that saying "There but for the grace of God go I" think about it. Each of us could end up in a very different set of circumstances with a couple of bad breaks. Just lighten up and be happy.
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Old 06-06-2007, 08:48 AM   #55
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Move to Ontario Canada and You will find out about Taxes and I am with You hamguy...Bushman
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Old 06-06-2007, 09:30 AM   #56
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It's funny what greed does to people. Many "honest" [Gates, Buffett] wealthy people feel there is something drastically wrong with our tax system. The only thing worse than the tax system is our health care system, I believe that we have been passed by Costa Rica in quality of health care delivery. Something to be proud of.
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