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Old 12-16-2006, 08:42 PM   #1
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Is it just me that thinks Mtn. climbing in Dec. on one of the highest mountains in the lower 48, is just plain foolish. I do hope they do find those 3 climbers in good shape, and none of the volunteers and rescue worker are hurt in their attempt to find these three. just do not understand their reasons for doing it. summer yes,winter no.
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Old 12-16-2006, 08:42 PM   #2
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Is it just me that thinks Mtn. climbing in Dec. on one of the highest mountains in the lower 48, is just plain foolish. I do hope they do find those 3 climbers in good shape, and none of the volunteers and rescue worker are hurt in their attempt to find these three. just do not understand their reasons for doing it. summer yes,winter no.
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Old 12-16-2006, 09:49 PM   #3
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My thoughts are that it is indeed FOOLISH. Officials will close our mountain passes to all traffic when danger exists, I think the same thing should be setup for winter climbers and impose stiff fines if they make the attempt and survive.

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Old 12-17-2006, 06:46 AM   #4
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Yes, foolish and very costly in personal hazards and search and rescue costs. Think of it here when people go out in swollen flooded streams then have to be rescued by helicopter.

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Old 12-18-2006, 05:38 PM   #5
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The climbers have to apply for a permit to do these trips so at least the authorities have a record of who is up there. The climbers should be require to post a bond at about 10% of some average cost to cover these rescue/recovery attemps...
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Old 12-19-2006, 06:09 PM   #6
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No thanks. It's dangerous enough in good weather, let alone in a blizzard.
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Old 12-19-2006, 07:35 PM   #7
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jfb:
The climbers have to apply for a permit to do these trips so at least the authorities have a record of who is up there. The climbers should be require to post a bond at about 10% of some average cost to cover these rescue/recovery attemps... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know if Joe Average Thrill Seeker could afford that. Lets see the last report that I heard about the cost estimated the 2 Blackhawks and 1 C(130?) at almost $3000 and hour each and 1 Chinook at close to $5000 and hour. If they were in the air 15 hours a day for 11 days then it is $14,000 an hour times 165 hours which equals $2,310,000 just for the aircraft. $23,000 would be the 10% to cover just the cost of the aircraft. That should cut down these types of events.

Really the cost of people engaging in extreme sports is getting very hard to bear both on the financial and emotional fronts. It dosn't matter if we are talking extreme mountain climbing, extreme biking, extreme rollerblades, extreme skateboarding etc. This is just one more thing that hits everyone on one front or another even if you or someone you care for is not a participant. We all have to pay higher taxes and insurance rates to cover the costs of bailing them out with rescues, medical treatments and rehab therapies.
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Old 12-19-2006, 07:55 PM   #8
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I saw on the tube that some states now have a law authorizing re-couping rescue costs for that very reason. These three men ignored their training and experience in mountain climbing. One is dead the other two now presumed dead. They are not left to mourn the loss of a loved one, and that's the really sad part.
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Old 12-20-2006, 08:02 AM   #9
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Some mountains now charge $200 per person to get a permit to help with costs. I know that is not much, but it will help deter some at least. You also need special training to get the permit.

There is a debate going on about charging for rescues. One camp says "no way". Another says "yes". There other is where I am. Don't charge if it was unforseeable and unavoidable. Like you are hiking with your kids on a trail in nice weather and somehow get turned around and lost. You don't pay for rescue. If you are going way out of bounds late at night in extreme weather in dangerous terrain, you get charged. Some fear that if people fear getting charged, they will wait to long to call for help. That is a valid point, but if you are not doing something stupid, you don't have to worry about being charged.

Will the charges keep people from doing these things, probably not because they don't think they are going to need it.

As for the guys on Mt Hood. I think that they were experienced and were not doing anything extreme (at least by todays standards). I personally think it is crazy, but they were trained, left a note of their plans, and had the equipment. If their friend had not broken an arm, they probably would have made it up and back down with no incident.

Question is this... Would what they did be considered risky enough that they would get charged for a rescue under the above mentioned criteria?
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Old 12-21-2006, 07:02 AM   #10
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I go back and forth when I debate this. I each arguement has pros/cons.

what I didn't like seeing is a few years ago the news video of the Blackhawk rescue helo rolling down the hill like a out of control tobogan when it was trying to conduct a rescue.

The best mitigating thing I can think of is to have pass/fail criteria to enforce before people are allow to roam the wilds freely. If you can prove that you are capable, then off you go.

It would cut down on the inexperienced ones getting into trouble and that would cut 75% of the rescue requirements.
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Old 12-27-2006, 10:30 AM   #11
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One of the two bodies of the mountain climbers from Norwood Colorado has been found in the mountains of China. These two climbers didn't tell the locals where they were going nor did they leave any information about their climb. They were reported missing by friends back here in the US.
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Old 12-28-2006, 04:06 AM   #12
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Personally, I'm in the camp that all climbers/hikers in these areas should be required to carry mandatory GPS locators.
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Old 12-28-2006, 05:42 AM   #13
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Joseph, very good idea!
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Old 12-28-2006, 07:04 AM   #14
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NeilV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jfb:
The climbers have to apply for a permit to do these trips so at least the authorities have a record of who is up there. The climbers should be require to post a bond at about 10% of some average cost to cover these rescue/recovery attemps... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

$23,000 is only 1% -- 10% would be $231,000. Either way not a bad idea.
I don't know if Joe Average Thrill Seeker could afford that. Lets see the last report that I heard about the cost estimated the 2 Blackhawks and 1 C(130?) at almost $3000 and hour each and 1 Chinook at close to $5000 and hour. If they were in the air 15 hours a day for 11 days then it is $14,000 an hour times 165 hours which equals $2,310,000 just for the aircraft. $23,000 would be the 10% to cover just the cost of the aircraft. That should cut down these types of events.

Really the cost of people engaging in extreme sports is getting very hard to bear both on the financial and emotional fronts. It dosn't matter if we are talking extreme mountain climbing, extreme biking, extreme rollerblades, extreme skateboarding etc. This is just one more thing that hits everyone on one front or another even if you or someone you care for is not a participant. We all have to pay higher taxes and insurance rates to cover the costs of bailing them out with rescues, medical treatments and rehab therapies. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
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