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Old 01-13-2011, 06:24 PM   #15
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When I was taking drivers ed. we were taught to come to an intersection and come to a full stop, look left, look right and look left again. While doing this we counted 1000- one, 1000 - two and to proceed if the intersection is clear. I still do that.

Ken
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Old 01-13-2011, 06:35 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Chickadee View Post
The core issue is not about whether folks obey traffic laws, nor about imposing dramatically elevated fines to achieve a safer driving public, it's about the PRC continuing to implement societal control measures in hopes of generating increased revenue on the backs of "The People" to pay for poorly managed, mostly politically motivated, over spending "programs" (for lack of a better term).

It's a small matter, but indicative of an array of issues needing to be corrected in our country, and...."We The People" can do it !!

Steve
ABSOLUTELY correct!
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:32 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by TXiceman View Post
When I was taking drivers ed. we were taught to come to an intersection and come to a full stop, look left, look right and look left again. While doing this we counted 1000- one, 1000 - two and to proceed if the intersection is clear. I still do that.

Ken
What you do sounds good to me but is about 8sec. short of the 10sec. requirement mentioned before if that is in fact the law. 10 sec. sounds like enough to bring out road rage in some one behind you.
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:48 PM   #18
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The only surprise to me was reading in this thread that there is a minimum number of seconds that you must be stopped at a STOP sign here. I have never heard that before. I'll have to google that one.
SanDiego Mike
Well since you bring it up I'll go into more detail because, to be honest, we never got a clear answer from CA on what exactly we did to deserve our $450 fine. The course of events went like this:

- We got our "fine" by mail with attached pictures claiming we had not adequately stopped at a red light for right-hand turn
- After multiple attempts to call the court (they were never availible to answer), I drove down to talk and try to figure out our options
- At the clerks office was told I had violated the "full stop". When I pointed out that it sure looked like we stopped given the time on the pictures the clerk said "yes, but you're supposed to stop for 10 secs". I was also told I must pay the fine up-front even if I'm planning to contest and would be fined additional money if I didn't
- Not knowing any better I paid and went home to google. I did find the CA code relating to stopping at a red light (VC section 21453), and although the code itself is clear as mud, I couldn't find anything with a specific time-frame on it, and couldn't find any other code relating to time-frame for stopping
- Feeling confident in our case we thus contested the ticket with aforementioned details
- A few months later we recieved a notice that our appeal had been denied and we were actually in violation of not stopping "at the marked line". OK...we progress. I checked the picture and our front tires were, in fact, a foot or so in front of the line *in the picture*. Now, as it so happens this particular camera is in a road where you need to pull forward to adequately see on-coming left-hand traffic (very sneaky). The picture showed us pulled forward and stopped to check for traffic, but did not show anything prior to that time-frame.
- So, we wrote back again to the court describing this and saying we had stopped before the line and then pulled forward to check on-coming traffic, and if they had any evidence to prove otherwise we would be eager to see it.
- Once again the appeal was denied and we were told we had violated code

At this point we're 6-7 months into this ridiculous business and we were planned to go full-time RVing the following month. I guess we could have contested again and possibly brought in a lawyer, but we decided we did not want to delay our RVing life and let it go.

By the way my hubby's boss was "caught" at the same camera...contested in court with a lawyer and won after many months. So, who knows....

Illegal right turns are apparently big money makers for CA and have caught some resentment in the news:
Legislation introduced to lower red light camera ticket for "California stop" | abc7news.com

There you have it. Probably much more than you needed to know, but that explains why I have no warm, fuzzy feelings for CA traffic code. Too much eagerness to fine and bring in the $$, and the raising of fines only increases that eagerness.
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:58 PM   #19
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Oh Well!!!!! While a lot of you are freezing your butts off. I'm here in good ole sunny southern California, having a nice cool glass of lemonade, relaxing in a lawn chair. Oh and by the way, I obey the laws. They are there for a reason.
Don't worry, the great state of California will regulate that next!
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Old 01-13-2011, 08:05 PM   #20
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Maybe they'll collect enough fines to pay BC the money they owe us for Hydro we supplied or year and years. Seriously though it is nice to know the ten second rule. Weird.
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Old 01-13-2011, 10:09 PM   #21
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Well since you bring it up I'll go into more detail because, to be honest, we never got a clear answer from CA on what exactly we did to deserve our $450 fine. The course of events went like this:
.......
There you have it. Probably much more than you needed to know, but that explains why I have no warm, fuzzy feelings for CA traffic code. Too much eagerness to fine and bring in the $$, and the raising of fines only increases that eagerness.
WheelingIt
What a rotten deal you got on that one.

Here in San'Dago the red-light cameras are installed and operated by a private company contracted by the City. The company gets some of that fine money collected. The company was caught a few years ago with setting funny times in the camera's timing mechanism. Citizens started complaining that they were already in the intersection while the light went yellow, that they didn't run a red. A large number of unpaid tickets had to be thrown out. Unfortunately a large number had already been paid.

We have a place up north in Petaluma too. It has a lot of old chicken-shacks and long lonely roads. I drive like an old hen so I stop fully at all STOP signs but I believe I am the only person in CA to do that, either in northern or southern. I don't want to end up like those chickens in the chicken farms up there. Bar-B-Q'd.

I love California, chicken Mike
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Old 01-13-2011, 11:24 PM   #22
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That stop sign is a tank of diesel! I am not impressed with the way California is handling their enforcement since it smells like a speed trap in the whole State. My plans to go there next summer are definitely changed after reading this.
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:45 AM   #23
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Here in San'Dago the red-light cameras are installed and operated by a private company contracted by the City. The company gets some of that fine money collected. The company was caught a few years ago with setting funny times in the camera's timing mechanism.
I love California, chicken Mike
Interesting. All this actually happened in San Diego so wonder if that was the case for us? I love San Diego. Just hated the tickets...
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Old 01-14-2011, 11:09 AM   #24
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V C Section 26708 Material Obstructing or Reducing Driver x2019 s View
The above link refers to: VC 26708 $178 Unlawful material on vehicle windows. For those that have the time and would like to check this vehicle code I believe there are few that would pass a check by a dedicated State Patrol Officer. And BTW, check the last lines which were amended by several links. Remember, every state has it's own rules for this one code.
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Old 01-14-2011, 12:09 PM   #25
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What you do sounds good to me but is about 8sec. short of the 10sec. requirement mentioned before if that is in fact the law. 10 sec. sounds like enough to bring out road rage in some one behind you.
The California code is very simple. There is no 10 sec requirement:
Solid Redľ A red signal light means "STOP." You can make a right turn against a red light after you stop then yield to pedestrians, bicyclists, and vehicles close enough to be a hazard. Make the right turn only when it is safe. Do not turn if a "NO TURN ON RED" sign is posted.
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Old 01-14-2011, 03:20 PM   #26
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Thank you, California !!! I hope this spreads across the US of A & I wish that the fines would double & also include loss of driving privileges for offenders. Driving for me was once an enjoyable experience. That no longer is the case.

Here in the northeast (NJ & NY) where I spend most of my driving time it is absolutely insane, w/drivers on cell phones & texting while driving - isn't it GREAT when they veer into oncoming traffic - me - on a 2 lane road.

I sometimes wonder how fast one must go in excess of the speed limit to warrant a speeding ticket. It is NOT unusual for most to do 10-20 mph over the limit. It's also not unusual for me to take a 100+ mile trip - at the speed limit, or slightly above, in the right hand lane, & not pass a single vehicle.

I am at the point where I no longer enjoy towing my trailer & hopefully will be able sell it come the spring. I cancelled a 2 month stay in Florida losing my pre-paid reservations, mainly due to the thought of a 3000 mile round trip & having to deal with the lunatics on the road. I refuse to tow above 60mph even when the limit is 70-75 & unfortunately I consider myself a road hazard. Sorry, folks.

It's scary out there !!! jodann
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Old 01-15-2011, 02:23 PM   #27
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Gee since I missed out on posting over on Escapee's Ill add a few comments here:
First, Im responding to this from a City Police Officer point of view(L.A that is). The Calif vehicle code is a rather large document of which, most officers have limited knowledge of completely. What most do know are the common violations and the violations which give you PC(probable cause) to pull a vehicle over. Many of the statutes on the books are used in this fashion so not only as a deterrent to unsafe driving but also a means to weed out some real criminals. How many burglars, robbers, dope dealers and users, guns etc etc have been taken off the streets simply by a traffic stop...not a question but a FACT!
Ive lived in the greater LA area my whole adult life, 40+ years of driving without any incident.

I read with some amusement about JQ public complaining about a patrol car speeding pass them stating whats good for the goose is good for the gander. If you have the slightest idea about the "coding" of calls responded to by officers you would understand why sometimes officers speed past without red lights and sirens on! If that patrol car was responding to YOUR non Code 3(red lights and siren) request for help, would you not want them to get there as soon as possible? I would!

I appauld CA for discouraging abusive and unsafe driving....drive our freeways once in awhile and see how many actaully obey the speed limit. We all already know that ignorance of the law is no excuse so parking 18" from the curb has been on the books since before I could drive....if not 18", why not 24", 36", or even 48"....Im sure one must realize there is some legal distance? Stop sign(22450VC) and red light(21453aVC) require a vehicle to come to a full and complete stop, proceeding when safe and legal to do so.

Im hoping Calif can produce more income through the increase of Vehicle Code violations and apply this to our State Park system to lower those rates...lol J/K!? Happy RV'ing all......
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Old 01-15-2011, 03:55 PM   #28
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Gee since I missed out on posting over on Escapee's Ill add a few comments here:
First, Im responding to this from a City Police Officer point of view(L.A that is). The Calif vehicle code is a rather large document of which, most officers have limited knowledge of completely. What most do know are the common violations and the violations which give you PC(probable cause) to pull a vehicle over. Many of the statutes on the books are used in this fashion so not only as a deterrent to unsafe driving but also a means to weed out some real criminals. How many burglars, robbers, dope dealers and users, guns etc etc have been taken off the streets simply by a traffic stop...not a question but a FACT!
Ive lived in the greater LA area my whole adult life, 40+ years of driving without any incident.

I read with some amusement about JQ public complaining about a patrol car speeding pass them stating whats good for the goose is good for the gander. If you have the slightest idea about the "coding" of calls responded to by officers you would understand why sometimes officers speed past without red lights and sirens on! If that patrol car was responding to YOUR non Code 3(red lights and siren) request for help, would you not want them to get there as soon as possible? I would!

I appauld CA for discouraging abusive and unsafe driving....drive our freeways once in awhile and see how many actaully obey the speed limit. We all already know that ignorance of the law is no excuse so parking 18" from the curb has been on the books since before I could drive....if not 18", why not 24", 36", or even 48"....Im sure one must realize there is some legal distance? Stop sign(22450VC) and red light(21453aVC) require a vehicle to come to a full and complete stop, proceeding when safe and legal to do so.

Im hoping Calif can produce more income through the increase of Vehicle Code violations and apply this to our State Park system to lower those rates...lol J/K!? Happy RV'ing all......
I think you put it very well.
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