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Old 11-02-2013, 07:32 AM   #1
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New car Negotiating

Haven't bought a new car in 10 years or a new MH in 5 years. I'm buying a car and need some pointers. I see on some car forums that deals are being negotiated for discounts of 15%. I'd be happy with that. Anybody know the secret ?
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Old 11-02-2013, 07:35 AM   #2
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If you buy straight out and do not trade in you can expect the 15+ percent leverage. Trading in you get zip and they get your trade in for pennies
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Old 11-02-2013, 07:56 AM   #3
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Somewhere on the web is a site that identifies the difference between dealer cost and sticker price for literally every option, as well as the car itself. This allows you to negotiate from a position of knowledge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clifftall View Post
Haven't bought a new car in 10 years or a new MH in 5 years. I'm buying a car and need some pointers. I see on some car forums that deals are being negotiated for discounts of 15%. I'd be happy with that. Anybody know the secret ?
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:19 AM   #4
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Consumer Reports gives dealer cost against the sticker price. Sometimes they break down dealer incentives as well. Dealers have sticker prices but they also get incentives on certain models.

The secret? Do not fall in love with the car until after you buy it.

Make an offer for what you want to pay (based on your knowledge) and if they do not take it get up and leave. They will call you back. Once you have a price stick to it they may attempt add ons (undercoating, scotch-guard, protection plans etc) before you write the check.

Buying on line from a dealer allows the negotiation without looking at the person or being under the pressure of the moment. Once you get a price however stick to it and do not accept changes when you arrive to pick up your vehicle.
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:19 AM   #5
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The 15% being mentioned is available on certain vehicle but not from all manufacturers. Like Honda, we don't usually have that type of spread. That being said, we won't let you walk away either with a reasonable offer. Do not take first pencil though, work the sales person and always ask for more than you expect to get that way you can negotiate to your intended walk away price. If the salesperson is an idiot, ask for the manager or another salesperson. I have been in this business for twenty years and have seen idiots on both sides. If the company offers rebates (and you can find that out on the web before you get there) negotiate the price BEFORE rebates are applied. If you have a trade, you can email pics and vin # to the dealership and see what you can get for it before wasting your time there. Also, documentation fees or procurement fees are different at every dealership so find that out in advance.
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:27 AM   #6
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Discount depends on the car. If in high demand there may be no discount.

I understand there is not as much wiggle room as back-in-the-day.

After about a month on the market, Pontiac Aztecs were real cheap. They were real ugly!

Maybe google the best cars in the class, like mid size sedans, etc?

Gonna get a Wrangler? ;-)
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:10 AM   #7
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If you belong to Costco (Sam's and BJ's might do this too, I don't know) they have a discount program set up with selected dealers. You get a "pre-negotiated" price, but no haggling. Worth checking out; if you're already a member, it doesn't cost you anything. You tell them what you want, and the dealer contacts you.

I got tired of the haggling game a long time ago, and generally now only buy from "no dicker" dealers that post their discounted price on each car. Typically these are near invoice (though the dealer still gets his "hold back," so makes a profit). As to trade in, if I have a car to sell, I get a price offer from the nearest CarMax -- it's usually as much or more than a new car dealer will offer in trade.
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:29 AM   #8
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The best advice regarding was given to me years ago by a self-made multi-millionaire: “He who cares less….wins.” It works with anything you buy/sell where there are negotiations.


Here is an example:
Upon selling a business, the buyer tried to lower the price $10,000 at the closing! I refused, said I would keep the business and started to leave. The buyer quickly reversed course and wanted to buy at the previously agreed price. I wasn’t having that. Before I sat back down, they had to agree to pay $10,000 MORE. I really did not care and it worked. They paid dearly for their last minute games.


Be ready to walk. If that car you absolutely love is at a dealer you that won’t give you a deal, remember, there are more dealers out there carrying that exact same unit.
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:35 AM   #9
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Cliff, do you believe in subliminal messages?
(Wrangler)

Me neither. But isnt it time for you to buy the car that you really want?
(Wrangler)

;-)
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:53 AM   #10
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Find the car you want, take a pic of the window sticker, and go online to Edmund's. There are no strict percentage to go by. Edmunds will give you sticker, invoice and probably pretty close to what you should pay.

http://www.edmunds.com
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:58 AM   #11
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The tip about not falling love or getting emotional about the deal is great advice. The most fun I've had with dealers is when I went along with young female co-workers buying their first new cars. In the first case, she picked out a car she liked, negotiated price, then the salesman tried the old "I'll take it to my manager." trick. The deal was of course rejected. I had coached her to get up and walk out. As we were leaving, the offer was dropped $2500. We still left, but by the next day she got the car from the same guy for $3200 less than the deal the manager had rejected. In the second case, after I had raised some questions, my friend gained confidence and got a great deal. By the time we had been passed back to the second guy in the back office who was in charge of selling undercoating, clear coating, scotchguard, etc. she was so pissed off at the manipulations I had predicted would happen she suggested we leave. The price was renegotiated for less than the first offer and she was very happy.
The first incident was done pre-internet days, the second time we were informed by internet sites that told us we had made a good deal.
Once when I was buying a used car from a Porsche dealer, my kids were little (4 +5 yrs) As my wife were in the office negotiating, when the deal was taken to the manager for approval I turned the kids loose in the showroom. As our kids were standing on the fine leather seats of Porsches with their heads out the sunroofs, our deal was hastily approved at the price I wanted.
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Old 11-02-2013, 10:11 AM   #12
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Cliff, were you planning on trading in a car?

That kind of changes the game plan....Remember salesmen are out there to make the most $$$ possible.

I just ordered a 2014 Tundra last Friday. I had a 2005 Toyota 4Runner that only had 52k miles and was in very good condition. I knew from searching that my SUV was worth between $13,500 to $15k on a good day on the open market. Was all set to put it on Craigslist as I had done the year before with my DW's Corolla.

My Toyota dealer 2 blocks away had called when a double cab Tundra arrived to test drive. I had hinted over the last two years I was thinking of a Tundra. Sat down and the salesman who I used to buy two new Corolla's from in the past threw some #'s at me with a trade value of $11k. Not knowing what options or even the trim level I wanted we parted ways for the day. I did more research over the next few days and determined exactly what I wanted. I ended up moving up to a "Limited" model to get all the options I wanted. I even drove 50 miles to another dealer to see the leather trim and exterior color in person to know exactly what I wanted. So I wanted a Limited with black leather, blue paint and:bedliner, tow mirrors and running boards. So you MUST know ahead of time exactly what you want before you can seriously look at the numbers a salesman will threw at you, otherwise he will jumble up the figures to confuse you, so you think you are getting a deal. That is why I always get a OTDP (out the door price). When I mean OTDP I mean I will write one check to purchase this item...they can add all the extra fee's, charges they want, but I only want to see one number.

So he called a few days later like I knew he would and I hinted while camping the past weekend a far away dealer offered me a much better price. Not really, I just made that up.

In the mean time, the dealer across town I had bought three 4-Runners from in the past (90', 99' and the 05'). He gave me a trade-in price of $14k and about $2500 off the MSRP on the truck. The 14 actually surprised me. But in the end what was the OTDP (out the door price). And this was for the truck exactly how I wanted it. So I told him I have a out of town dealer ( made that up) who was going to call me at 3pm that afternoon with an offer. I wanted to wait for that offer to come in before I decide. So he sweetened their offer up by another $500 off. I was actually fairly OK with his offer.

In the mean time my wife called the around the corner salesman and said "Hey Frank, don't tell my husband, but I think he is getting ready to buy that new Tundra from that out of town dealer, I really want to buy from you guys, but you know him, he deals only in a OTDP, don't tell my husband I called, he would kill me".

So I was 95% sure I would be signing paperwork with the across town dealer, but wanted to see what my DW's (secret) talk with the salesman brought. He wanted to see my trade again....interesting. His old offer had a $11k trade value. They looked at it again. I actually saw three people walking around my SUV. So his old offer was now at least $2500 more . I really didn't think they would move that much. So he came in and asked where do we need to be? I wrote a number on paper that was $150 less than the other dealer across town. I saw 3-4 managers with the salesman conferencing in their office from the corner of my eye. I made it look like I didn't have a care in the world as I drank their coffee. By the way their coffee was terrible. 15 minutes later he came over and said we had a deal. I was actually in shock for a moment. From buying three past Toyota SUV's from the across the town dealer, I didn't think they would move that much on the price. I know this dealership had changed ownership about a year ago, so they must have really wanted my business.

So with trading in my SUV instead of selling it myself on Craigslist I saved $1100 on the sales tax difference and I will get a $600 refund on the unused portion of the extended warranty I did not use. I also saved myself the hassle of selling it myself. I sold my Corolla and my old RV tt on Craigslist along with 100's of other items the last 3 years.

You have to do your research and determiner what a good price is BEFORE you are at the table with the salesman. That is why after I test drove the vehicle and he made a offer, I politely said I was not prepared to go any further and parted ways. Otherwise if he sees that you are unprepared, he will take advantage of you, especially if you have a trade. Just about 3 months before this deal, I looked at a Dodge SUV for the hell of it and they offered me $7500 for my trade. They were going to steal it....
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Old 11-02-2013, 10:39 AM   #13
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In the 70's Consumer Report magazine started offering dealer cost figures to members. Some of the old poots on here may remember that the margin was about 20% MSRP to dealer cost. After a few years the margin mysteriously dropped to 10%. The story at the time was that the manufacturers cut their markup to keep from having to raise their prices. Thus the game of dealer hold backs and hidden profits was born. The game is now to make the paper work as confusing as possible and push every add on you can imagine. The spread today between MSRP and dealer cost is Round 5% to 6% per Edmunds. Could any of you that had a business operate on a gross margin that low. I still shoot for an OTDP (plus tax) of 20% off MSRP. The dealer will get very creative to meet that discount, but, they can and will.

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Old 11-02-2013, 10:59 AM   #14
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My "OTDP" includes tax....I make it real simple. Because on the final paperwork a dealer may change the trade value to make the numbers work. I really don't care how they come to that number.

You also have to take into account how popular a vehicle is, and it's availability. I know the Toyota trucks and SUV's even the advertised ones in the paper they don't take much off. Where as the Ford and Chevy trucks and SUV's their advertising lists taking $5000 right off the list.

In ther last week I'm seeing Ford trucks with 5-$7,000 off for the 2013's.

Use the internet to your advantage. Go to cars.com, edmunds.com
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