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Old 12-06-2008, 04:39 AM   #169
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DriVer:
I just heard this morning on CNN that Honda Motors has suspended or cancelled its open wheeled motorsports program due to sluggish sales of its core products. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That sounds like pretty astute cost control to me. I would have thought that the Big 3 would have shut off their motorsports program funding before now.

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Old 12-06-2008, 08:45 AM   #170
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Too many opinions (including my own) based on too little knowledge of the full economic picture yields very few real answers. We can't equate manufacturing issues in the US with those in other countries (different rules). We can't equate the situation in 2008 with 1929. (different rules)

It is interesting to read all the different views, even when they are based on mis-information but needless to say, we here on the forum will not solve the problems.

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Old 12-06-2008, 08:57 AM   #171
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RustyJC:
I would have thought that the Big 3 would have shut off their motorsports program funding before now... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Rusty, I'll be sure to share with all the NASCAR fans where you live!

Actually for the BIG3 and Toyota to disengage themselves from motorsports is not a good marketing plan. They are not going to close down all the speedways and retire all the race teams. If the drivers need more money on the other hand they may yet have to go back to Winston, Marlboro and Joe Camel

Motorsport does more for advertising that just about any media (except TV ads) so relatively speaking its a good investment for them.

No News Flash - but - Buick laid off Tiger Woods not that long ago as well.
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Old 12-06-2008, 10:06 AM   #172
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Automakers Apply Brakes to NASCAR

NASCAR teams and their sponsors are cutting back. (By Jim Bounds -- Associated Press)


By Liz Clarke
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, October 23, 2008; Page A01

For decades, the success of NASCAR's brand of high-octane, fender-banging stock-car racing has been intertwined with the fortunes of the U.S. automotive industry. NASCAR victories represented a nod to Detroit's ingenuity. And showroom sales, in turn, were credited to the exploits on race day. As the marketing adage went: "What wins on Sunday, sells on Monday!"

But with the Big Three U.S. automakers struggling to survive, they have begun to dramatically scale back their financial involvement in NASCAR, threatening the economic model that has driven the sport's popularity. Other corporate sponsors that helped transform stock-car racing from a workingman's pastime into the country's dominant form of auto racing also are scaling back their investment as a result of the sagging economy. Some companies may not renew their commitments -- many of which run more than $10 million -- when current contracts expire. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Balance of article in Washington Post may be found HERE

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Old 12-06-2008, 01:05 PM   #173
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The "big three" auto makers of Detroit have to cut back on their sponserships of so many things in order to survive. I thought NASCAR was on its way down two or three years ago. They no longer allow teams to "think outside of the box", the cars are now like the IROC series cars. Most people won't pay good money to see this type of racing. The allowing of toyota in the series also cost NASCAR many fans. It's not an American car company. When NASCAR goes back to their "roots" the fans will come roaring back. Indiana Journey
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Old 12-06-2008, 02:31 PM   #174
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NASCAR like so many other sports, and car manufacturers, have price themselves right out of the average persons price range. They can tighten their belt like the rest of us.
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Old 12-06-2008, 03:01 PM   #175
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It amazes me that the root cause of the problems we are experiencing is the rate of mortgage foreclosures causing the halt in all types of new construction. New construction causes manufacturing of all kinds of things like, cars, trucks, appliances, real estate transactioons, taxes, new homes, services & information etc. Selling foreclosed properties & eliminating financing causes Homes, Malls, & Factories to not get built. Who then needs a vehicle, buy materials & make payroll, use services? We don't need too much more information, we know it's bad.
Bailing out flippers & those that bought more than they can afford may seem unpalatible but where are the ideas coming from the very high paid people who tell us in better times they know what they are doing? Bailing out banks that are afraid to lend money is not working, Bailing out any car maker will fail if no one needs a new car or truck soon.

Building bridges & other infrastructure take time to get going, I think it's time the banks get off the pot & work out failing & failed mortgages, encourage & make home & commercial loans, There is an immediate, pent up demand that could be immediately energized if credit & construction were not contracting, result would be manufacturing, services & information would be needed.
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Old 12-07-2008, 09:27 AM   #176
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What I am advocating is a structured bankruptcy that will have very little if any stoppage of the manufacturing process. A judge will come in and reorganize and all contract will be cancelled. He (or She) will start over and try to get labor contracts that will give the big 3 a chance at survival hat they do not have now with all of these huge contract. I mean $73 won’t work, where the transplants are making money at the $48. If the existing workers do not want to work for these wages and benefits that others are standing in line for, then they can quite. Retirees (65 plus) will go under social security and regular retirement and Medicare. Underage retirees can get reemployed until they reach normal retirement ages and the gold plated healthcare would have to be something normal like the rest of us have. We have to keep the government from taking money from struggling taxpayers and giving it to people who retired 15 years too early and are used to the very best at no cost. The goose that laid the golden egg has already died an these people must realize it. These little cuts that the UAW are proposing (3 % when the problem is over 40%) are an insult to the American taxpayers intelligence.
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Old 12-07-2008, 09:49 AM   #177
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Its fine to "negotiate" concessions with the workers but leave the retired people alone. I have alot of respect for people who have paid their dues and earned their retirement. They should not have to worry about losing their pensions.

I have a long way to go to retirement but when I finally get there I dont want anyone trying to take away what I have earned. I would just want to live my golden years in piece.

Lindsay I understand how you feel and I would probably be more on board with your thoughts if I believed as you do that this bail out is a gift as apposed to a loan.
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Old 12-07-2008, 12:16 PM   #178
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DriVer:
We are seeing stock prices below $5.00 on GM stock, Ford is almost less than half of that. Chrysler is on the skids.

If any of these companies go belly up it is likely that what we have known as RV'ing . . . . Not a good day. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wow! Really started one, didn't ya? I'll be you never expected this kind of response. I'm sure whatever I had in mind has been covered somewhere in the previous eighteen pages, so I won't belabor it, but hey, that's what these forums are for.
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Old 12-09-2008, 08:56 AM   #179
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&gt;&gt;&gt;Its fine to "negotiate" concessions with the &gt;&gt;&gt;workers but leave the retired people alone. &gt;&gt;&gt;I have alot of respect for people who have &gt;&gt;&gt;paid their dues and earned their retirement. &gt;&gt;&gt;They should not have to worry about losing &gt;&gt;&gt;their pensions.

My pension (IRA and 401k is down 35% just like most everybody else and I still contribute to society. I have a big problem with people who are working to full retirement age (now 66 and rising) being taxed to pay for people who retired 15 years earlier than they did. This is just not right. If it wasn’t for the taxpayer element, they could do what they wanted, but this a bailout, not a loan. GM stock is worth about $11 billion total. They own over $50 billion and have billions more in commitments they made (stupidly in my opinion). They require 4 billion in the next 2 weeks and 14 billion more until March. Anybody thinking this is a load hasn’t looked at the numbers. There isn’t a bank in the world that would “lend” them the money. They (management and union) have ruined these once great companies and now want the taxpayer to just give them the money to continue to pay these huge wages and benifits. Union concession have been in the 3% range when 40 % will just get them to the transplant range. I can not see why we should just give the money to be used up by March as they predict.
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Old 12-09-2008, 10:09 AM   #180
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Here's an interesting article; http://www.org/workplace/110417/slashing wages will hurt workers,but it won't save the big three/ Indiana journey
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Old 12-09-2008, 10:45 AM   #181
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I could not make that link work and tried changing it around. I still couldn’t. You can get to the root website, but I couldn’t find the article. Please check it as I’d like to read it. We know that the transplants are doing well and expanding a whole lot at the $48/hour total compensation. They are building new plants all over. KIA (which I think is Korean) has built a new plant in GA and is going to hire 2,600 workers. They had 43,000 applications and these jobs will be very coveted like the other transplants employees enjoy. Americans can make great cars at a profit for themselves and for the company. The many years of building up these huge debts of unfounded pensions and gold plated healthcare. The main purpose of the structured bankruptcy would be to get these obligations reduced to an normal and reasonable level. I just can’t see taxpayers who have deductible health insurance polices with large premiums (a company who pays an employee’s premium would rather jut pay them the money and it is a form of remuneration.) paying for free eyeglasses and the like for people who only pay $21/month for family coverage. I’d say these young retirees should be going back to work and doing their own health care costs. Over 65 retirees are covered via Medicare which they helped pay for with employer matched deductions during their shortened careers. I mean I pay $1946’month for BC/BS and the 51 year old retirees want me to pay for their polciey when they pay almost nothing for their gold plated policy which is a lots better than mone. If it could be covered by the buyers of new vehicles, then, I have no problem, but not when I have to pay. I see a lot wrong with this picture.
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Old 12-09-2008, 11:08 AM   #182
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An interesting perspective - HERE

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