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Old 12-16-2008, 03:16 AM   #239
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The same good folks (our politicians) who have virtually bankrupted our Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid systems now want to bring us national healthcare. I can hardly wait !!
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Old 12-16-2008, 04:18 AM   #240
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Once again, you just keep making up facts without checking them out. Police and fire are almost all fully paid up in the year they are working (mainly by law) and many have the option of taking a lump sum at retirement. The Federal government which doesn’t do the full retirement after 30 years, but offers a very much reduced retirement. The military is a totally different situation and the retirement level is much reduced and is not enough to actually live on except for the highest level. The big three are the main industry in doing this and invented the term. Whether you admit it or not, the practice is what has brought these companies to their knees where there are only several options left: Liquidation, reorganization, or taxpayer continuation to pay for the benefits for this one industry. The consumers have proven that continuation of this practice isn’t going to happen. We have beaten this subject to death and I am never going to be able to make you understand these simple facts, so I am going to stop trying. I suspect the the millions of dollars ($400,000,000) the unions gave to races in this last election will be paid back to get this approved for a while, but the American people won’t be paying for these gold plated benefits forever no matter how much of your dues are given to the politicians.
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Old 12-16-2008, 04:49 AM   #241
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Lindsay, just so you know, federal law prohibits union dues being used for political contributions. We set aside funds rather "voluntary contributions" for political action. And you are right you will never convince me helping others is wrong. M.Y 30 AND OUT pension is fully paid out of funds in the bank, not current workers income
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Old 12-16-2008, 04:52 AM   #242
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Everybody...

This topic is deteriorating into a political debate. I also see an increasing frequency of the pronoun "you" in each successive post and that often signals a trend towards personal attacks rather than an issues debate.

Please remember that issues can be discussed but politics is a no-no and all remarks must address the issue rather than the person making the statement. I know it's a fine line at times, but we want to remain friends here, despite some differences of opinion.

Remember to
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Old 12-16-2008, 05:06 AM   #243
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I'll be lookng for you out at the campgrounds. We will have a beer.
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Old 12-16-2008, 05:55 AM   #244
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Y'all need to buy your own beer --- no taxpayer money for your beer!

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Old 12-16-2008, 08:56 AM   #245
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It looks like the D3 will recieve loans from the TARP funding. Probably the money AIG had planned to have for another "party", I Hope everything gets straightened out soon. Indiana Journey
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Old 12-16-2008, 09:33 AM   #246
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The $400,000 AIG “party” was for independent insurance brokers who have the option of selling many different companies insurance. This was a reward for selling the AIG products. This type of reward is common in business world wide and I have taken a few little trips like this myself. It is all figured into the price of the insurance and if AIG doesn’t follow these practices, their competitors will be eating them up and we will never get our loan back. I want them to be successful and want the brokers to continue selling AIG products. The Big Three bailout is said to be about $14,000,000,000 as a first installment to get them to March. Total amount varies all the way up to $150,000,000,000. The smaller amount would pay for about 35,000 of the broker rewards party, but then again, it does make a great story. Personally, I would rather let the free market decide who wins and who loses. The free market rarely makes mistakes where politicians make a career of it.
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Old 12-16-2008, 09:41 AM   #247
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Guess I tend to get too emotionally invested in some subjects. I truly do not mean to attack anyone on a personal level, it's my passion on the subject that tends to push buttons. Lindsay I know you feel as passionately about you views as I do mine, so we will agree to disagree and leave this to those with a little less passion.
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Old 12-16-2008, 09:51 AM   #248
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Letter from a college student:

Dear Dad,
Merry Christmas and I hope you and Mom are doing well.
School is expensive and I seemed to have gone into the red. I need to get a loan. I need enough to buy books, pay tuition, dorm rent and food. Oh yeah I need keg money to have the frat party. You know, its college and this is what we do. Sure appreciate the loan, I'll pay you back once I graduate in 5 to 10 years.
Did I tell you I put in an application for part time work with AIG. Looks like I have a good chance at a career with them.
Happy New Year
Your Loving Son,

Eat and Run
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:27 PM   #249
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I think AIG was just given around $153 BILLION for their bailout. Not sure, but that's what I read in all the financial websites. This is backed up with worthless paper according to these websites. It will keep a few thousand "workers" employed and they won't get as large of bonuses this year. The D3 employee several hundred thousand directly and at least 2 million indirectly and if the loan is not approved they will probably loose their jobs, causing a major recession or depression. These jobs aren't just the UAW workers, they are also the engineers, supervisors, upper management,small business owners,parts manufacturers, car dealers, car dealer employees,etc. The list goes on and on. People that don't think that they will be affected need to think again. The manufacturing base needs to be saved,unless we want to become a third world country. Indiana Journey
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:01 PM   #250
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lindsay Richards:
Once again, you just keep making up facts without checking them out. Police and fire are almost all fully paid up in the year they are working (mainly by law) and many have the option of taking a lump sum at retirement.

Lindsay, if you think these are the real facts perhaps you could read the current Philadelphia budget, the pensions are paid out of current operating funds, not money in the bank. I'm sure that other big cities are in the same position.
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:06 PM   #251
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by indiana journey:
I think AIG was just given around $153 BILLION for their bailout. Not sure, but that's what I read in all the financial websites. This is backed up with worthless paper according to these websites. It will keep a few thousand "workers" employed and they won't get as large of bonuses this year. The D3 employee several hundred thousand directly and at least 2 million indirectly and if the loan is not approved they will probably loose their jobs, causing a major recession or depression. These jobs aren't just the UAW workers, they are also the engineers, supervisors, upper management,small business owners,parts manufacturers, car dealers, car dealer employees,etc. The list goes on and on. People that don't think that they will be affected need to think again. The manufacturing base needs to be saved,unless we want to become a third world country. Indiana Journey </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gee whiz add that to the 330 billion too wall street and it's very close to the 500 billion I quoted.
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:14 PM   #252
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Gee whiz add that to the 330 billion too wall street and it's very close to the 500 billion I quoted.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's why I said "What's 200 billion between campers" Only in America can $200 billion be called prety close. I am trying to let all this stuff go and don't want to be drawn in by some obvious problems. Look at some of my recent trips and see what an old timer does.

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