Go Back   iRV2 Forums > iRV2.com COMMUNITY FORUMS > Just Conversation
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Closed Thread
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-12-2008, 03:08 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 113
Rod, I totally agree with your reply. The US auto makers have been held hostage for more, more, more. As a smalll business owner myself with 25 employees, you cannot afford to offer lifetime retirement benefits to your workers. It will eventually put you out of business, When the US ato workers are making between $70.00-$80.00 per hour for wages and benifits and the Japaneese auto workers are making around $35.00 - $40.00 per hour with benefits, something is dead wrong. I say to them, claim bankruptcy and start over. We have already bailed out Chrysler once, why again? The US auto makers just don't get it, let them get some responsible management. You can't sell their cars becaus their labor rate makes them unafordable and unable to compet with the competition. It is the unions that are busting them! The workers are not skilled workers,but the unions have convinced the US auto makers ( and held them hostage) that they are!
I am glad that Florida is a right to work state and I don't have to deal with the unions. My workers are equal to or make more money and benefits than any union shop in town. The good thing is I am not held hostage by the unions!
I am all for the unions when we needed them, when there were sweat shops etc, but I think they have outlived ther time. I contribute along with my employees to a 401K retirement plan and their health insurance. I can't offer them lifetime benefits. it just isn't possible! What I can offer them is a great work environment with great benefits and to share the profits with them when we are profitable thanks to their help.
How about a bailout for my Company? No way, I am too low on the food chain!
I don't mean to offend anybody, and if I did, I apologize to you.

Bob O
__________________

__________________
Bob & Dianne O'Brien
05 Horizon 40AD, 400 Cummins
07 Explorer 4 X 4 Limited
Bob O is offline  
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-12-2008, 06:05 PM   #16
Moderator Emeritus
 
Vette Racer's Avatar


 
Oklahoma Boomers Club
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Sand Springs, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,823
Well, I guess I'm going to be in the minority here but one thing I see is that wages have not went up with costs. This means to me that I have less buying power which translates to less spendable income. No wonder this economy is taking a dive. How can you have a growing economy when people can't afford to buy things? The costs have outrun the wages.

Now, as for wages and benefits, I do agree that the auto workers have a lot more than most of us, especially the benefits. However, most people out there making less than $25 an hour can't hardly make ends meet due to the costs today. There has to be some reorganizing of prices vs wages or this country is going to continue to have major problems. That's why I think this collapse has occurred. No flexable spendable income, no buying! I really think the petroleum industry (world wide) has the responsibility for all of this. Those prices caused everything to go up! Unless prices come down or wages go up there will be no quick fix. My nickles worth. Used to be two cents but ...!
__________________

__________________
Tom
KE5NCP
2016 Silver Ram 3500 CC Dually, 2011 HitchHiker DA 349 RSB, 2014 Wrangler unlimited Rubicon
Vette Racer is offline  
Old 11-12-2008, 07:12 PM   #17
Registered User
 
Excel Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North of the Mason Dixon Line
Posts: 1,565
The Big Three bail out seems like a waste of taxpayers money to me. Why would a manufacture keep producing a product and over supply his demand? I do not now,. But the question I want to bring up is ,why dose management always blame the craft for their mismanagements? Unions did not break the Big Three, the people that manage them did not manage their business properly and are going to try to use this as a Union Busting tactic. We need to support our own economy and buy things made here.
__________________
BookIIRoadtrash is offline  
Old 11-13-2008, 04:47 AM   #18
Moderator Emeritus
 
RustyJC's Avatar


 
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by book2roadtrash:
We need to support our own economy and buy things made here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The Toyota, Honda and Nissan manufacturing plants covered in my graph are located in the U.S., and their labor rate is 2/3 that of the Big 3. That's got to change, or the Big 3 cannot survive over the long term. Basic economic reality.

On Edit: To illustrate, both Ford and GM reported huge 3Q08 losses and are burning cash at the rate of $2+ billion per month! Toyota (the one I remember offhand) reported decreased earnings, but they're still profitable.

Rusty
__________________
2016 Ram Longhorn 3500 Dually 4x4 CCLB, 385/900 Cummins, Aisin AS69RC, 4.10
2014.5 DRV Mobile Suites 38RSSA #6972
Come join us on a TEXAS BOOMERS rally!
RustyJC is offline  
Old 11-13-2008, 03:27 PM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Malvern, OH, USA
Posts: 82
Bob O: I fully agree with you. We all need to bombard our congressmen with our opinions. This auto bail out is nothing short of discrimination against all smaller business' that have to survive by making cuts. I think we need to all come together and find one of these televison lawyers to start a class action discrimination lawsuit!!
__________________
Rod & DeeDee Wise

04 Everest 343L, 07 Chevy 3500 SRW,4x4,D/A,ext.cab
R.G.Wise is offline  
Old 11-13-2008, 04:09 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Glen41's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Texas
Posts: 100
If they want to support the auto industry, then kick out the bozos that ran it in the ground and nationalize it. They already proved that they don't know how to run anything. Do not let those yahoos play with our tax money. Push them over the side without a "golden" parachute. If they have not saved part of thier bloated salaries then they can go to work at McDonalds and learn what it is like to scrape by for a living.
Put a couple of Master Sargents in charge and run it like a car company instead of like a Wall Street stock price producer.
When the indians lost to the cowboys they elected new chiefs. They didn't fire all the indians.
__________________
CONGRESS
Never underestimate the power
of stupid people in large groups
Glen41 is offline  
Old 11-13-2008, 06:21 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 113
Rod,
I am so ready with you to start speaking out. We have cut everything we can cut at my business. We hope to hang on like all the other struggling small businesses out there right now. If the auto makers get a bailout, I want one too!
I agree that there has been mismanagement and GREED on their part and I agree with most of the posts above on this sore subject.
Check out the Dow Jones graph for the last ten years (Google it)for Ford stock. It looks like a big slide from a high around $35.00+ per share to where they are today at $1.90. They didn't do this alone, they got help from the union who threatened them evrytime the contract came up for renewal. Give us what we want OR we shut you down with a strike! Again,NO COMPANY can pay lifetime benefits and pay their employees double plus the average pay for their line of work compared with the Japaneese automakers salary and be somewhat competetive and survive! I also agree with the above posts that some jobs haven't kept up with the cost of living and are underpaid so people can live above the poverety line, BUT the US automakers are not one of them. They have also ignored the outlook on the changing tide in America,and they keep producing big vehicles with big apetites for fuel. Just my opinion and two cents
Bob O
__________________
Bob & Dianne O'Brien
05 Horizon 40AD, 400 Cummins
07 Explorer 4 X 4 Limited
Bob O is offline  
Old 11-13-2008, 08:14 PM   #22
Registered User
 
Excel Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North of the Mason Dixon Line
Posts: 1,565
The auto industry is the backbone of American manufacturing The failure of even one U.S. automaker would mean the loss of millions of jobs and cost our economy hundreds of billions of dollars. It's also about thousands of car dealerships, which are anchor businesses in cities and towns across America, It's about thousands of small and medium-sized businesses -- employing millions of workers -- who supply parts, logistics, research, engineering and other services to Chrysler, Ford and GM If a major domestic auto company were to fail, a significant number of supplier companies would also be in jeopardy. This would quickly affect all companies that produce autos in the U.S. -- including Toyota, Honda and Nissan -- because many of these firms buy parts and services from the same group of suppliers. Like I said earlier we have to support America! Keep on buying cheap clothes at the super centers that have a sweat shop labor force in China. Keep on eating South American meats, fruit and vegetables. And the list can go on and on, A quote from Thomas Jefferson" a government big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take all you have."
__________________
BookIIRoadtrash is offline  
Old 11-13-2008, 08:30 PM   #23
iRV2 Marketing
 
DriVer's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Coastal Campers
Carolina Campers
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Conway, SC
Posts: 23,304
Blog Entries: 70
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bob O:
They have also ignored the outlook on the changing tide in America,and they keep producing big vehicles with big appetites for fuel. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Bob, I can't disagree with that assessment. I recently visited my Chevy dealer to take a look at that new 2009 Traverse.....

Can I have a show of hands from those folks that want to continue buying $39,000 Chevies?

I thought a Traverse would be in line to replace the Equinox but this beast if anything is huge. I would think that the Trailblazer, Suburban, Tahoe all huge cars in their own right would fall from favor by now given that even truck sales are really slow, but Chevy continues to make BIG vehicles. Should they stop building large SUVs, not at all there is a need out there but let's get real. GM can't continue to build vehicles this size and expect to sell them off the lots like they're priced like Cobalts and Malibus.

I am excited about Dual-Hybrid technology and the Chevy Volt. In order for the Detroit auto makers to become profitable again they have to make vehicles that most people will want to buy.

No more stupid parachutes ... the company executives I believe are running the company into the ground. How about, "You're fired!" The Unions are not making it easy either. I have been a Union member practically all of my adult life and the Union was good for people in my profession however in reality one of the reasons that all of our vehicle manufacturing jobs were pushed off shore is evident, poor management and the cost of labor. Someone has gotta come to task with this.

Do we give them 50 Billion now and wait for them to go broke 2 years from now or do they really make a brilliant change for the better and turn the industry inside out? Given 50 Billion, do they fix the problem?

GM = $2.95 share
F = $1.90 share

YUK!
__________________
03 Adventurer 38G, Workhorse W22
F&R Track Bars, Safety+ , Ultrapower, Taylor Extremes, SGII
TST 507, Blue Ox, SMI, Koni FSD, CrossFire
RV/MH Hall of Fame - Lifetime Member
DriVer is offline  
Old 11-14-2008, 04:31 AM   #24
Moderator Emeritus
 
RustyJC's Avatar


 
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
HERE is a piece that's worth reading regarding this subject from this morning's Houston Chronicle.

Rusty
__________________
2016 Ram Longhorn 3500 Dually 4x4 CCLB, 385/900 Cummins, Aisin AS69RC, 4.10
2014.5 DRV Mobile Suites 38RSSA #6972
Come join us on a TEXAS BOOMERS rally!
RustyJC is offline  
Old 11-14-2008, 05:42 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 113
Rusty, That is a great article, thanks for sharing it. The writing has been on the wall for all of the big three US owned Automakers. Ford stock was close to $40.00 ten years ago, yesterday it was at $1.90. If you look at the ten year graph for Ford stock, it looks like a big downhill slide. If they can't fix themselves in ten years what makes people think a bailout will fix them. Poor Greedy Management and the unions have helped them to be where they are. Yes I also believe it will be a disaster for our already ailing economy to let them fail,So what do we do? Help them out or keep fueling a car that doesn't run? I don't have the answers. Just my two cents
Bob O
__________________
Bob & Dianne O'Brien
05 Horizon 40AD, 400 Cummins
07 Explorer 4 X 4 Limited
Bob O is offline  
Old 11-14-2008, 04:35 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 443
How many of you know a retiree of Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai or any of the "transplants" in the USA? None probably. How many of you know how much the governments of these manufactures subsidize these industries? None probably. As a retiree of one of the American auto companies I know firsthand that the foreign auto industries are subsidized by both their government and the state governments where they are located. Check to see how much is offered to them to locate in the states where they are located. It is your tax money going to them. You can give the Unions heck for their part in the wages and benefits but remember that they got nothing that the companies didn't give them in place of something given up by the workers. The Unions have represented the workers at the auto plants since the Thirties and are still needed. I worked 36 years in an auto plant and retired with good benefits. I also have been exposed to asbestos, freon, massive amounts of other carcinogens that the everyday worker never gets close to. My hearing is almost gone from exposure to the factory noise. Most of my joints[knees, hips,shoulder,wrists] are bad from the work which I preformed. The wages that I recieved when working were earned and my retirement and benefits are part of a legal contract that I signed when I retired. I, for one am not against the federal government stepping up and doing the right thing and helping the auto industry through this rough time. End of rant. Indiana Journey
__________________
indiana journey is offline  
Old 11-15-2008, 04:26 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
Chickadee's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,027
Ahhhh...So, if Unions had had ownership of these companies from...say...the beginning, then the negative things (economy, worker exposures, and poor quality) would NOT have happened? Hmmmm.
__________________
2014 Newmar 3103 BAYSTAR/Triton V10 w. Banks/05 Honda Element toad
Chickadee is offline  
Old 11-15-2008, 04:30 AM   #28
Moderator Emeritus
 
RustyJC's Avatar


 
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Cypress, Texas USA
Posts: 8,854
The fact remains - a company competing in a global commodity market cannot survive with annual labor costs of $141,000 to $152,000 per hourly individual when the competition's costs are $93,000 per individual. The U.S. owned auto manufacturers are posting staggering quarterly losses and are burning through their cash at the rate of over $2 billion per month. Put quite frankly, that means that if nothing changes, a $10 billion loan might allow a manufacturer to survive 5 more months. Is that worth the investment? Unless the systemic problems are fixed, it's only throwing (my) good money after bad.

I've worked for my employer for 35 years and will be 61 years old next month. When I retire, I will get whatever is in my 401(k) - period. No defined benefit pension. No health insurance. Nothing else. Just a lump sum payout. That's the reality of the labor market in the United States today.

Rusty
__________________

__________________
2016 Ram Longhorn 3500 Dually 4x4 CCLB, 385/900 Cummins, Aisin AS69RC, 4.10
2014.5 DRV Mobile Suites 38RSSA #6972
Come join us on a TEXAS BOOMERS rally!
RustyJC is offline  
Closed Thread



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dog attack GraciesMom RV'ing with Pets 29 04-30-2009 09:51 AM
King of the road goes bankrupt Jim Wilson 5th Wheel Discussion 2 02-09-2007 08:08 AM
2007 MADP - Or, the Attack of the Electrical Gremlins Doc Mark Newmar Owner's Forum 11 01-05-2007 04:43 PM
Eagle Cap Camper .....Bankrupt! TJ Camper Truck Camper Discussion 9 10-13-2005 12:14 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.