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Old 12-18-2008, 01:25 PM   #281
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Jodann: Iíve been to The Wall, but I am fortunate that none of my friends are listed there. Also, Arlington Cemetery where from up on a hill, looking down into a swell, I observed the burial of another fallen warrior. To me, nothing can be more stirring then the mournful sound of Taps. I could go on and on but that would be a Hi-Jacking of the initial subject.

God Bless----Merry Christmas to you and yours.

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Old 12-18-2008, 03:52 PM   #282
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Edison HS in Philadelphia had the Highest mortality rate of any HS during Vietnam. To many people I went to school with are on the Wall. Going there is almost like a HS reunion. To many brave young lives lost. The majority of the people from Edison were volunteers as it was in the poorest area of the city and many joined as a way out of the ghetto. They are remembered by those of us who came home. God bless all who serve. Marty I agree it brings tears to my eyes when ever I here that lone bugle play. Winkpedia link http://tinyurl.com/3l3upd
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Old 12-19-2008, 04:16 AM   #283
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The latest bail out, bridge, plan for the big 3 will be delivered at 9:00am. This will be the beginning of the next chapter to a never ending story......
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Old 12-19-2008, 07:31 AM   #284
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">White House to Loan Auto Industry $17.4B

The White House will provide low-interest loans to General Motors and Chrysler, FOX News has confirmed.

FOXNews.com

Friday, December 19, 2008

President Bush said Friday that a bankruptcy was unlikely to work for the auto industry at this time because it would deal "an unacceptably painful blow to hardworking Americans" across the economy.

The low-interest loans will be drawn from the $700 billion Wall Street rescue fund, Bush said. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said Friday that Congress will need to release the last half of the fund because the first $350 billion has now been committed.

One official said $13.4 billion of the money would be available this month and the next, $9.4 billion for General Motors Corp. and $4 billion for Chrysler LLC. An additional $4 billion will be made available to the companies later. Ford Motor Co. has said it does not need immediate help.

Bush said the loans will be called back if the companies are not viable by March 31.

"The time to make hard decisions to become viable is now, or the only option will be bankruptcy," Bush said. "The automakers and unions must understand what is at stake and make hard decisions necessary to reform." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Balance of story HERE. Looks like that can has been kicked down the road.

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Old 12-19-2008, 12:03 PM   #285
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Sadly, the president of he UAW said after the speech that they were not obligated to give up anything. Looks like the UAW is going to bring the whole industry down and is banking on Oboma and company to continue to bail them out forever due to the $400 million the unions gave to dems during the last election cycle. I saw a great analogy today saying that the Big Three are like a horse race and they have a 300 pound jockey on their backs. No way they can survive unless the jockey makes huge concessions (40% in total compensation) and they wonít even begin. If they are to survive, then a judge will have to do it. Unfortunately looks like after we throw a lot of money at it. It would be easier for the people if they just did it now. When the horse is dead, a wise person stops betting on it. $73 to $44 is just too much to overcome.
I think President Bush did this to last them until he is gone.
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Old 12-19-2008, 12:47 PM   #286
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The Big 3 have lasted what a hundred years?

They must have been doing something right all these years.

They make great cars that people want to drive. They arent stupid. They have done well and so have their employees.

The reason they are having such trouble at the moment is due to the fact that people have overextended themselves financially to a point that has brought the country to its knees.
If you cant get a loan you cant buy a car.

They are the largest hence the title " Big 3 " and thats why they hurt first.

Now with the bailout we should see the auto sector rebound hopefully and in doing so the whole economy should benefit and everyone will be happy again.

Thats my two cents, now I have to get back to shovelling snow. Supposed to be leaving tomorrow morning for Myrtle Beach but me is thinking this storm of the century snow is never going to end.
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Old 12-19-2008, 01:42 PM   #287
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IMHO...The auto makers with the help of the UAW have dug themselves a pretty deep hole due to a lot of mismanagement and excessive demands. They will not get out of the hole very easily but they need to do it themselves...UAW included.

They have lived fat and happy for a bunch of years and now the times are tough. Now they get to join the real world and see how people cut back when times are tough. I have been through several serious down turns in the Houston economy and suffered with no job, lower income and seriously curtailing spending.

Hello auto industry...welcome to the real world. It is either give some and still have a job or you have no job. Sorry to be so blunt, but I do not feel much sympathy for the auto industry...try making a living in the oil gas and petro-chemical industries.

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Old 12-19-2008, 02:46 PM   #288
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As much as I sympathize with the auto workers 99% of my sympathy is for the retirees, they played by the rules, as much as we may disagree with them. But after 42 years in construction I learned one thing live within your means. There is no business more cyclical than construction, when things are good they are very good but when they are bad you can lose everything. I learned that early and lived within my means. I also worked at anything when things were bad. I was a married man with a house and family and shoveled snow from sidewalks when there was no work, I painted the bottoms of boats, worked as a helper on delivery trucks. My point is when thing are bad there are no jobs I wouldn't do to pay the mortgage and feed the kids. That's what these folks need to realize you have to do whatever it takes.
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Old 12-19-2008, 06:21 PM   #289
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I donít think anybody is talking about cutting the retirees off. The judge will be cutting back on the extreme retirement benefits and gold plated healthcare. that they have now. The 50 to 65 year old would probably be losing the gold plated healthcare plans they get now for $21 a month (family) and will have to have a more normal one with normal copays and normal deductibles and without the vision, dental and other freebees they now enjoy. The plan would be costing a lots more like normal early retirees in the range of $700 to $800 a month. The retirement income would be cut down to what the portion that the company funded at the time they were working. The problem would be going back to work like most other 55 year olds in America. They would be able to generate additional future retirement income on this second career. The over 65 folks on Medicare (they and their employers paid for this during their working career.). The part B and the part D which is being paid for now by the buyers of todayís cars, would be the new responsibility of the retiree just like almost everybody else. These steps would put the retired employees a similar retirement to other workers and help reduce the total compensation down to a competitive wage with the other American made companies. The wages and benefits of still employed workers will also be adjusted to bring down the total compensation down to a competitive level.


If this isnít done by bargaining or by a judge, the companies will be going under as they canít compete and everybody will lose. The choices are do this or fail. Keeping on like the past wonít work and their long downward spiral will continue. Hondo, your spirit of doing anything to support you family is the exact opposite of what we heard from the president of the union today.
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Old 12-20-2008, 05:46 AM   #290
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GM, at least, NEEDS to declare Chapter 11. This will let them reorganize, jettison non-performing dealers, tear up crippling UAW contracts, and close obsolete factories.
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Old 12-20-2008, 06:49 AM   #291
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The link is to an interesting video of a new Ford car plant in Brazil that the UAW will not allow due to the very old crippling work rules. This is what is coming and will leave the old UAW permitted methods even further behind. This type of thing can save the ig three and the American taxpayers.

http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189
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Old 12-20-2008, 09:22 AM   #292
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In addition to the poor management of the auto manufacturers, the UAW has contributed their fair share of crippling effect to the US plants. Is their little wonder that the manufactures such as Ford want to move their plants off shore so that they can have more control of how the vehicles are built. The problem is not totally cheaper labor, it appears to be the ability to build a product with modern technology.

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Old 12-20-2008, 11:04 AM   #293
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As a union member of 42 years I don't think it's the unions job to keep productivity low by stopping changes in technology. In the construction industry the only way for everyone to come out ahead is to be more productive. People can only work so hard, after that it's up to new tools, materials and technology. Our union always supports methods to do things more efficiently. So it's not all unions or workers, and by not allowing new efficiencies the end is lost jobs. Just hope those so opposed to unions realize that not all unions are bad, probably not even most unions.
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Old 12-20-2008, 11:30 AM   #294
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Hondo, you seem very sensitive about unions. In this thread, from what I have see, people are talking about the UAW and the big three. I have. They are the only ones wanting taxpayers to suplement their benifits by the injection of billions of dollars of our hard earned tax dollars. The president of the UAW seems to be just bound and determined to push the companies over the brink by making no meaningful concessions. I have a Nissian V-6 truck made in TN by Americans and it is one of the best vechiles I hve ever had and it put some food on American families tables.
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