Go Back   iRV2 Forums > iRV2.com COMMUNITY FORUMS > Just Conversation
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Closed Thread
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-21-2008, 07:53 AM   #309
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 443
The transplant companies "say" they follow the laws but when an employee reports different they are fired and discredited by these companies. Talk to some of the ex-employees from Marysville, Ohio, Lafayette, Indiana, Georgetown, Kentucky, To name a few. If they are injured on the job they are fired. Do they need Union representation? Yes! Do they want Union representation? Yes! Are they intimidated by the company "thugs? Yes! Don't believe everything you read in the local paper, they are usually very biased toward the companies. The "good paying" jobs have people "waiting in line" to get them because people want to better themselves, not because they are transplant auto jobs. All of the auto manufacturing plants worldwide are hurting, not just the D3. Governments all over the world are loaning/giving their auto industries large sums of money to keep them going, many at low or no interest. The impact of the United States auto plants closing would be catastrophic to the economy at this time. It would effect everyone, not just the auto workers. The loans are a start in the right direction. Indiana Journey
__________________

__________________
indiana journey is offline  
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 12-21-2008, 08:00 AM   #310
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 443
MtManLee,I'm Pretty sure that the Saturn plant was and is UAW from the time they opened the doors. Several of the ideas tried by Saturn were unsuccessful, not because of the Union, but because they didn't fit into the overall plans of GM. Saturn was dieing a slow death from "lack of money",so GM brought them "into the company" and hopefully saved them. Indiana Journey
__________________

__________________
indiana journey is offline  
Old 12-21-2008, 08:54 AM   #311
Registered User
 
Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Back in Philly for the fall heading to Sunshine before the snow flies
Posts: 1,485
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lindsay Richards:
The transplant companies follow the same labor relations laws that every other company follows. The UAW has spent millions and millions trying to organza them and built union halls right next door. These efforts have been totally unsuccessful as the workers at the transplants are very satisfied and ther eare long waiting list. KIA is opening a new plant in South Ga and had 43,000 applications for 2,600 jobs. The transplant jobs with a $44/hour total compensation ae nearly twice the national average. They are considered to be great jobs. The notion that these workers need the UAW is totally foalse and the current trouble of the big three really reinforce that. The notion that the transplant workers are intimidated is totally false. They love working there and may towns have been saved by the transplants. These are considered to be great places to work and saying the workers are intimidated is just repeating the UAW line. What is intimidation is when you have worked your whole life in an industry that is rushing for the scrap heap and you see your union and management teams acting like they don’t hve a clue how to stop it. The more the president of the UAW gets up and says the things that thinking person knows will send these companies to the scrap heap of history, the more the transplant workers become against the UAW. They are killing the big Three along with some management that appears to have it’s head in the sand or some other dark place. Hopefully when the judge levels the playing field these companies or remnants can be saved. The reason union participations is plummeting like a rock is union bosses are not in tune with today’s worker and today‘s world. The UAW is a great example of this. Their membership has gone way down and the nonunionized workers building American cars are skyrocketing. The reasons are very clear, but the UAW bosses can’t see because of their heads been stuck up that dark place. (Where the sun don’t shine.) They will nevr get back on their feet until this huge burden is removed from their back. They can work together to do it, have a judge do it, or follow the bus of the cliff. Having the taxpayers subsidize the UAW forever won’t be happening. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't want to start another north vs south battle, but the economies of both areas are quite different. The north was always the most highly industrialized area of the US while the south was historically an agricultural economy. As time goes on the south is becoming a more industrialized economy, so there are folks looking for jobs that generally pay more than the farming economy (which also leads to illegal aliens coming in to do the farm work at even lower wages) I would certainly want to work for a $44 package over competing with illegals working for $7 and no benefits. Ask them if they would like to have a $73 package. Unless they are crazy they will say sure. Human nature is to better your condition. $44 is better than $7 but $73 is better still. Let me know how many of those folks would turn down a higher wage job. A 43,000 waiting list is just a sign of a bad economy not necessarily a great job. When things get really bad there will be waiting lists for jobs at Mickey Ds'.
__________________
hondo122 is offline  
Old 12-21-2008, 09:11 AM   #312
Registered User
 
Excel Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North of the Mason Dixon Line
Posts: 1,565
Naw, Mickey Ds just exploit our children and elderly to have cheap labor.... Book2
__________________
BookIIRoadtrash is offline  
Old 12-21-2008, 10:51 AM   #313
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 61
"Unions represent workers because people want to be treated with respect and dignity and be paid a fair wage for the work they do!"

They want to be paid for the level of work done by the least competent. I worked in 2 union jobs and after those experiences, I vowed to never, NEVER do so again.

I worked in the semi-conductor business most of my working life and was paid a good salary for a 40 hr work week. I earned and received regular pay increases and was paid based on MY abilities.

I was never top paid nor was I ever the lowest. But I always knew what the goal was. And I never asked for nor received a 95% salary for sitting on my butt.

I had good bosses and bad bosses. When I didn't like the situation, I looked for and found other employment, even if I had to move across the country.

But that's just me.
__________________
lawdude is offline  
Old 12-21-2008, 12:44 PM   #314
Senior Member
 
Lindsay Richards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Tavares, FL
Posts: 1,644
The UAW plants have been unsuccessful while the rest of the county was booming. This has been going on for decades and isn’t a product of the recent slowdown. I don’t think many of the transplants would like to have the $73 as they now know it drives the companies into extinction like the UAW. The transplants have also been huge employee waiting lists throughout the boom years also. These are great places to work. Recognize this fact. People can say that they are not, but the facts do not sustain this. People love working for the transplants because they represent the best jobs in the area and the $44 is still much better than the nationwide average of $29 which covers the entire nation. The $73 is not sustainable compensation and most people understand this.

The UAW have made sure that they labor boards have investigated the transplants more than any other industry in America. The UAW has lost every election and will continue to do so. The elections are secret ballot and conducted by the federal labor board. OSAHA checks them out on a regular basis. They have great safety records. The simple facts are that they are not horrible companies exploiting the poor workers. As stated here by spittign back the UAW drivel. Hondo, you stated the union shops must be competitive to survive, you hit the nail on the head. The UAW put the big three in a noncompetitive situation. Things like the 30 and out. The 95% pay when off for 2 months due to slow sales and the huge gold plated healthcare for people retiring 15 years before normal retirement. The UAW is a like a parasite who has accidentally killed their host. Now that the host is obviously dead, they want the other American workers who work for normal wages and benefits to give up their hard earned taxes so they can still get their free glasses and dentures every year and no copay free medical. This is wrong an won’t happen long.

"Unions represent workers because people want to be treated with respect and dignity and be paid a fair wage for the work they do!"

This sounds good like Mother and apple pie, but in reality isn’t true. How do you explain the union’s “jobs bank” program where they have 12,000 people “working” and getting paid 95% of their pay and benefits. The president of the UAW’s considers his job to extract every last thing in money and inefficient work rules from the company. They have gone so far as to just about kill the company. Let’s be honest here, the same type of workers (southern, northern, or western as the transplants have plants in all region) are very successful and perceived as great places to work. The UAW companies are losing money hand over fist and any objective observer must agree they are the reason why. The big three are making money overseas and developing great new plants like th ones in Brazil. The difference is the UAW and they are doing a great disservice to the workers by killing the goose that has laid the golden egg. The strange thing is that so many of the workers still don’t see that the goose is dead. I might include poster here in that category also.
__________________
http://www.linandnancy.com
Lindsay Richards is offline  
Old 12-21-2008, 01:03 PM   #315
Registered User
 
Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Back in Philly for the fall heading to Sunshine before the snow flies
Posts: 1,485
This has turned into 2 questions, whether the UAW has gone to far and whether unions in general are a good thing. The answer to first is probably yes in some of the work rules. The answer to the second is a definite no,obviously I can't get through to some folks that unions help everyone, but that is the facts as they are. You need to read up on the history of the labor movement, we all benefit.
__________________
hondo122 is offline  
Old 12-21-2008, 01:19 PM   #316
Senior Member
 
Lindsay Richards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Tavares, FL
Posts: 1,644
&gt;&gt;&gt;whether the UAW has gone to far and whether unions in general are a good thing. The answer to &gt;&gt;&gt;first is probably yes in some of the work rules.


The work rules are contributing to the problem, but the people retiring 15 year too early without funded pensions and healthcare is the bulk of the problems. This is what has made the UAW plant uncompetitive with the rest of the auto making world. This is just to obvious to me, I don’t see how it can’t be obvious to everybody/ When you retire at 51 and get paid and free healthcare paid for out of today’s shrinking vehicle base, it can not last. This is how they got the $51 billion debt. The workers of today also expect it, but are going to be disappointed. President Bush has just given them enough of our hard earned tax money to get them into Oboma’s territory, If the UAW really wanted to save the workers, they would agree to normal healthcare and pensions rather than the hugely expensive ones that they are fighting for right into the ground. They do not recognize there is a problem yet.
__________________
http://www.linandnancy.com
Lindsay Richards is offline  
Old 12-21-2008, 02:31 PM   #317
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 443
Tell us again how well the transplants are doing and how the UAW is running the D3 into the ground. This should shed some light on the subject. http://www.freep.com/article/2...BUSINESS01/812200364 Indiana Journey
__________________
indiana journey is offline  
Old 12-21-2008, 02:35 PM   #318
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 443
lawdude, Right now the transplants are paying their full-time employees 100% to "sit on their butt". The job bank people are required to be in class, doing community service, or something of that nature to be paid. Indiana Journey
__________________
indiana journey is offline  
Old 12-21-2008, 02:49 PM   #319
Moderator Emeritus
 
TXiceman's Avatar


 
Vintage RV Owners Club
Texas Boomers Club
Oklahoma Boomers Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Full Time, TX Home Base
Posts: 17,150
Blog Entries: 21
I have never been a union member. My brother was IBEW and it was so that he could work in his field.

Unions have done a lot of good for both the members as we well as the spill over to the non-members. But like a lot of "businesses" there are some bad politics and under the table dealing. The unions have to be sure that the employers do not take advantage of the workers, but they also have to make sure that the union does not pressure the companies into a bad business situation.

With this "bail-out", the unions are going to have to realize that their workers are going to make some concessions, so that the company can survive. Buy the same token, the companies are going to need to make some serious changes in their mode of operation in this world market now.

There is no need in finger point at the unions or the companies, they all need to step back, look at where they are and how they got to this point and realize things have to change.

Ken
__________________
Amateur Radio Operator (KE5DFR)|Full-Time! - 2012 6.7L Ford Crew Cab Dually -2013 HitchHiker Champagne 38RLRSB - Travel with one Standard Schnauzer and one small Timneh African Gray Parrot
TXiceman is offline  
Old 12-21-2008, 03:08 PM   #320
Senior Member
 
Lindsay Richards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Tavares, FL
Posts: 1,644
The transplants started suffering when the economy got bad due to the housing and credit crunch. This is a very recent problem and has been discussed on the forum. The bottom line is that the transplants building cars in America have been making money for years and the big Three have been losing money for years. There is a $2,500 penalty per vehicle for the excessive caused by the UAW This is not in dispute, The Big Three’s overseas operations have been making money for years also. The article linked here confirms this. The fact that the Big Three are being run into the ground is not in dispute and was recently admitted by their CEO’s in front of congress. The 12,000 former employees of the Big Three job bank people who do no useful work are never going to be coming back to the assembly line and are being paid 95% of their pay plus their benefits that will be charged back to the purchasers of this years cars. I have not heard how the transplants handle the layoffs due to the slumping economy. You say they are getting paid for doing nothing and I’d sure like to see a link to an article about it. Please let us know. Thank you Your attempts to prove the UAW big three are as efficient and cost effective as the rest of the world’s auto industry is going to be a might tough road.
__________________
http://www.linandnancy.com
Lindsay Richards is offline  
Old 12-21-2008, 03:27 PM   #321
Registered User
 
Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Back in Philly for the fall heading to Sunshine before the snow flies
Posts: 1,485
What the UAW is doing is no different than social security and medicare only the age of retirement differs, we support those who have gone before us. I'm not saying it's a good model just that that's how we are doing it. Earlier in the post I mentioned that our Union has early retirement also. The prime difference is that ours is paid for while we are working. We don't have some magic percentage of our highest wage, ours is based on the amount paid in during your career for the number of hours worked. We don't get COLA increases it's fixed at your retirement. we get a stipend which effectively doubles your pension until age 62. You can work at a non construction related job with no loss of pension. You can also work as a carpenter when there is full employment for a maximum of 40 hours per month. One of the purposes of the early retirement is to make more jobs available for the younger members raising families (I would certainly consider this a fine example of taking care of the members in a way that doesn't cost the contractor a dime) To be honest most contractors support the early retirement as it keeps a supply of young workers whose bodies haven't been beaten to a pulp. I can't comment on other jobs, but I can comment on the effect of repeatative motion injuries have have on bodies as we age. I don't know a carpenter my age(61) who's body isn't broken in some major way I've had 2 rotator surgeries got a bad knee and 2 compressed vertebrae in my neck carpel tunnel and tendinitis and I'm in better shape than many of my friends half of my buddies have had knee replacement or spinal fusion. That is the prime reason for early retirement in the trades we are just too worn out, to the point we can't make money for the contractors. Guess that's enough venting for this post. You know the adage walk a mile in his shoes is really to the point, while it may not look difficult to an outsider, working on a production line would be hell for me, just couldn't deal with it.
__________________
hondo122 is offline  
Old 12-21-2008, 04:07 PM   #322
Senior Member
 
Lindsay Richards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Tavares, FL
Posts: 1,644
What is being done with Social Security is also wrong and will not wor either. Their poor example is one reason so many government organizations have made it illegal. I have told my daughter and son-in-law to never count on it as it will be gone by the time they get old enough. The only way the car companies can continue it is to grow drastically. Unfortunately they are shrinking drastically. I think everybody should be self dependant their whole life. Relying on the younger folks to pay your way at 55 years old is vey selhfish.
__________________

__________________
http://www.linandnancy.com
Lindsay Richards is offline  
Closed Thread



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dog attack GraciesMom RV'ing with Pets 29 04-30-2009 09:51 AM
King of the road goes bankrupt Jim Wilson 5th Wheel Discussion 2 02-09-2007 08:08 AM
2007 MADP - Or, the Attack of the Electrical Gremlins Doc Mark Newmar Owner's Forum 11 01-05-2007 04:43 PM
Eagle Cap Camper .....Bankrupt! TJ Camper Truck Camper Discussion 9 10-13-2005 12:14 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.